Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

@The Deterrent Let us hold the Abhi shot F16 for a sec....Let us ask this questions to IK and ISPR (unless you consider them to be gospel of truth)

1) There were 3 parachutes.... who are the 2 ?
2) ISPR mentioned about a pilot admitted to CMH, Which cannot be a lie as Abhinandan was taken to hospital later and his presence was mentioned as arrested? So they had 2 with them. Why no one asking ISPR ? or Imran Khan the elected prime minister who also made the same statement?
3) There are 2 more parachutes? How did the aircraft landed back with both the pilots ejected? Some new technology?
4) The villagers were talking about the other 2 pilots which means they landed nearby (Which is 7 km away from LOC) why no one is talking about it?
5) Let us assume that Indian aircraft was down, then if we could get abinandan back with in 48 hours of the incident why would India hold on to 1 pilot theory? That too with a dead or nearly dead pilot in advereary's custody? Where is the wreckage?
6) What was the 2 parts of aircraft which doesn't match with mig 21's... Where did this come from?
7)Why some of the parts (drop tank) hurriedly taken out in a truck, when the Mig21 was left for media to shoot?
8) 1 pilot was fired on his leg (according to villagers, There is nothing to doubt them as they are common men and has no idea of this propaganda game which gafoora plays and those videos surfaced with in hours of the dog fight ) Abhinandan had no such injury to his leg?
9) 1 pilot fired at villagers with his pistol if it was Abhinandan propaganda factory could have displayed the empty or details of magazine why? (That can be done now also)
10) The maps were destroyed by the pilot and seems to have swallowed... but ISPR displayed 2 maps recovered from Abhinandan. Then who was this guy?
11) Even today what Propaganda machine is doing is to prove Abhinandan did not fire... That doesn't mean F16 is not down...
12) As fanboys assume there were only 2 twin seater were there.... F16 and Su30.... If Su30 down it has to be in Indian territory... the down aircraft had to be down close to Loc (refer earlier logic of villagers seeing 3 chutes) Cannot be hidden by India... Picture would be out... Do not forget all this happened near LOC where Pakistan has assets as well as wellwishers... Not only that the villagers wont be able to make out the difference of jets or the pilots.... would have been out in flash...Villagers cannot be part of propaganda that time as they have no clue in what exactly happened or whose jet it was... listen to the voice of the videos... poor chaps were trying to figure out what exactly it is...

Last not the least... If India had lost Su30... We would be having a different conversation today.....
 
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Ask your air force where they spend their massive budget.
Why Abhinandan was sent to an actual combat with expired safety equipment?
This checklist was recovered from him.
1553223616562.jpg
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
I clearly Remember the Amraam Wreckage
Found by us

The Main cylindrical Body was Flattened

As if some body had beaten it with a hammer

And here the missiles they are displaying
Are Nice Rounded Cylindrical Shape

Though they fell from 3 km height
BC they think the whole world is Ch**ya
Click to expand...

The AMRAAM self-destructed. The three missiles on the table did not. Whereas the last missile, the R-73, has a missing warhead, which was triggered.

This photo is the best proof that the R-73 was spent while the other 3 missiles were still with the aircraft when it crashed.
 
safriz said:
Ask your air force where they spend their massive budget.
Why Abhinandan was sent to an actual combat with expired safety equipment?
This checklist was recovered from him.
Click to expand...
Because he was not supposed to cross the LoC and engage the fighters.
As far as expired weapons go, a certain submarine was way past its expiry date and was deployed in '71. Standards in subcontinent are pathetic when it comes to safety. And... lets not even talk about why Miraj ROSE aircrafts are still flying.
 
BlackOpsIndia said:

at 0:40 this video of F16 Crash shows the following, is this engine or part enclosing the engine?


View attachment 5145

Image from Pakistan:
View attachment 5146

Another F16 Crash picture: Source
View attachment 5147

Another angle:
View attachment 5148


Similar part?
View attachment 5150

Original Image Here
Article Here

I searched a lot and not many crash sites are available of F16 from up close and definitely not a video walkthrough as of like one Mig 21 so decide yourself.
Click to expand...


Already seen and analyzed.

They lost a F-16, there is no doubt on that.
 
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BTW folks, the usual Russian tactic is to launch two different type of sensor based missile on one target. One Radar guided and one heat seeking... I wonder if this tactic was followed.
 
Shajida Khan said:
Because he was not supposed to cross the LoC and engage the fighters.
As far as expired weapons go, a certain submarine was way past its expiry date and was deployed in '71. Standards in subcontinent are pathetic when it comes to safety. And... lets not even talk about why Miraj ROSE aircrafts are still flying.
Click to expand...
That was 50 years ago and done by "poor Pakistan"?
Now super rich india whos richness is touted by all indians sending pilots in a war with expired equipment?
Whats the word?
"Chee chee chee" :D
 
safriz said:
That was 50 years ago and done by "poor Pakistan"?
Click to expand...
Pakistan of 2018 is poorer and more in-debted.

safriz said:
Now super rich india whos richness is touted by all indians sending pilots in a war with expired equipment?
Click to expand...
India has fairly low standards of repair. There is a reason why we have such a high air-craft accidents.

Actually maintenance priority is a chronic problem in India. Nothing government owned is ever maintained to the required standards.
 
Sathya said:
Went through few threads in PDF , uuufff ...o_O

They ll make us believe , we got nothing.. but lost 1, 2... No. . 4 aircrafts..:eek:

I could understand why Stephen Cohen is so impulsive here. ....

He must reading there everyday...
Click to expand...


Told you, our guys head there, go mad reading all that and come demanding proof here. :D
 
Falcon said:
Told you, our guys head there, go mad reading all that and come demanding proof here. :D
Click to expand...
I don't know, it is the same forum where they were talking about some weird theories about rebellion in Sikh army battalions. Or even so called "Dalit" battalions. Wonder if such thing exists even.

Heck, they are even claiming that Pakistan has 8-9 Indian pilots captured and they will use advanced Chinese technology to create their clones to send back to India. Apparently, Chinese now have a Xerox for Humans if Pakistan and Chinese posters of MDH is to be believed.

I once had a discussion with a Chinese poster who claimed Chinese researcher have developed a non-Nuclear nuclear bomb of sorts. I told him that basic thermo-dynamics predict which can be highest energy dense material due to chemical bonds. It will N8, an allorope of Nitrogen. And their claims go beyond that. All the push back I could hear was "It was CHINESE RESEARCHER claiming, so much be true', "Chinese government is keeping it secret". Leave it to Chinese and they will even claim that their government knows how to fly faster than light. Welcome to Chinese exceptionalism.
 
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safriz said:
LOL,,,, so at mach - 4 an explosion and impact happens and parts of missile remains intact?
Click to expand...


Explosion at Mach 4? If it was hitting the tail section (not that it hit the aircraft but likely exploded in proximity due to shrapnel signs found on fuselage as can be made out) then what would have been the relative air speed? :)
 
Star Wars said:
The missile we recovered did not ram any aircraft. The missiles attached to the Mig would never hv survived the crash in that state. Unless its made of "unobtainium". Admit it. This is a really really weak attempt from your side.

Either way, your hesitation to announce ur losses is a big advantage.
Click to expand...


Not entirely true. There was no complete write off of the aircraft, you can see quite a lot of fuselage, tail and wings' section intact. And these are designed not to explode in an event of a crash.

I found it pretty amusing to see you all get after The Deterrent and not consider two statements:

1. IAF said 01 x R73 was fired.
2. IAF has claimed that the same hit F-16.

If you recall, initially it was speculated that the Pakistanis managed to shoot down their own aircraft too. When I said I am convinced that a F-16 has been shot down, but not confirmed, I always made the statement because the data I was able to access, pointed to F-16 being downed. What, in my opinion, has transpired is that after Wg Cdr Abhinandan fired 01 x R 73 at the aircraft heading into their airspace, there were multiple locks on his Mig-21 Bison. This is why, I said earlier that we need to consider the possibility of the AIM-120s being launched at him. Also, SAMs were in air. With so many missiles flying in, the probability that the R-73 alone did the aircraft in, in the process badly injuring the pilot, while hitting the port side of the aircraft, is thin. So, a likely scenario is that the aircraft was damaged severely by his missile, and the follow on of missiles from both PAF and Pakistani Air Defences may have finally dealt it the death blow.

If you notice, Wg Cdr Abhinandan, other than the warm reception on ground, was relatively unhurt. But the DG ISPR reported the other one being held at CMH.

No one takes a Prisoner to hospital immediately. The Medical Officer of the local unit which caught Wg Cdr Abhinandan, would have examined them in-situ and then taken a call. You think that they would not have ascertained the identities by then?

What happened was that DG ISPR and PM Mr Niazi, shot off before all this could be completed. In the process, miscommunication of one pilot being in CMH go out. Had it been an IAF pilot, the picture would have been tweeted right along with Wg Cdr Abhinandan's, or at least the name tabs :D
 
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Falcon said:
in the process badly injuring the pilot,
Click to expand...
It also depends upon how good the bail out was. If done improperly or if there was some mechanical flaw, then its essentially you sitting on a powder keg and hitting your head or whatever with some hard metal. It will be painful and debilitating to say the least.
 
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Falcon said:
Not entirely true. There was no complete write off of the aircraft, you can see quite a lot of fuselage, tail and wings' section intact. And these are designed not to explode in an event of a crash.

I found it pretty amusing to see you all get after The Deterrent and not consider two statements:

1. IAF said 01 x R73 was fired.
2. IAF has claimed that the same hit F-16.

If you recall, initially it was speculated that the Pakistanis managed to shoot down their own aircraft too. When I said I am convinced that a F-16 has been shot down, but not confirmed, I always made the statement because the data I was able to access, pointed to F-16 being downed. What, in my opinion, has transpired is that after Wg Cdr Abhinandan fired 01 x R 73 at the aircraft heading into their airspace, there were multiple locks on his Mig-21 Bison. This is why, I said earlier that we need to consider the possibility of the AIM-120s being launched at him. Also, SAMs were in air. With so many missiles flying in, the probability that the R-73 alone did the aircraft in, in the process badly injuring the pilot, while hitting the port side of the aircraft, is thin. So, a likely scenario is that the aircraft was damaged severely by his missile, and the follow on of missiles from both PAF and Pakistani Air Defences may have finally dealt it the death blow.

If you notice, Wg Cdr Abhinandan, other than the warm reception on ground, was relatively unhurt. But the DG ISPR reported the other one being held at CMH.

No one takes a Prisoner to hospital immediately. The Medical Officer of the local unit which caught Wg Cdr Abhinandan, would have examined them in-situ and then taken a call. You think that they would not have ascertained the identities by then?

What happened was that DG ISPR and PM Mr Niazi, shot off before all this could be completed. In the process, miscommunication of one pilot being in CMH go out. Had it been an IAF pilot, the picture would have been tweeted right along with Wg Cdr Abhinandan's, or at least the name tabs :D
Click to expand...
To be honest, my biggest doubt on F-16 being shot down is some folks claiming a two seater being shot down. Why will Pakistan use a two seater F-16 when standard fighter configuration is one pilot. Two seaters are reserved for training.
 
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