Sir, that is pretty much what i said. Abhinandan targeted the F16 and the pilot jettisoned the D/Ts to escape the R73. It is not a proof of an F16 being shot down. Can we say that an R73 will always hit the opposing F16?
Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16
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we had seen trucks carrying wreckage and also videos of two different aircraft falling. I had even posted pics from a vidio in which we can see two ejection seats falling one after the other.
I'm not saying NO to those posts. I just pointed out that the mere presence of drop tanks is not sufficient evidence for shooting down an F16. One can make more inferences based on other circumstantial evidences.
Do the ejection seats of Mig-21 Bison have parachutes? Also if a dual seat F16 went down, were there 3 parachutes in all? Some people also mentioned about a drogue chute making up for 3 parachutes - one from Abhinandan, one from his ejection seat and one from the drogue chute. Not sure how to nullify this claim.
Were these points addressed in this very thread?
Yes they were in my posts. What you have missed is the ISPR brief about three pilots. Abhi was one, who were the other two?
Yes i am aware that ISPR's claims gradually reduced from 3 pilots to finally 1 which they attributed to fog of war. While fog of war is possible, it does not give a cover for Ghafoor's and Imran Khan's claims of an injured pilot in CMH. But PAF fans also say that initially IAF denied that it lost a Mig-21 till Abhinandan was paraded though this IAF claim is probably not comparable to Ghafoor's changing claims.
What about the claim of all 3 parachutes from Abhi's Mig-21?
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I am not in know of anything..
But in general shouldn't we not agree .. In hope of recovering Abhinandan. Before pak could get him. If he is making an escape.
The IAF never denied anything. It was just the usual "unnamed sources".
First time about 3 parachutes from 1 jet. Only in Pakistan.
Anyway, the injured pilot in CMH and doosra banda comment were dead giveaways. They messed up by trying to give ball to ball commentary, instead of collating information and then announcing the result like the IAF did.
India gave a proper press brief and accepted that one aircraft alongwith Pilot was missing.
The drogue parachutes attached to the ejections seats of Mig-21 are so small that they cant be even seen at very close range. We all had seen big parachutes falling
Yes. ISPR was not even aware of what has happened as Siddiqui went around claiming a SU-30 and Mig-21 wreckage was in POK. They mistook the other fallen jet to be SU-30MKI and those two pilots as Indian Pilots. neverthless the fact remains that on that day three pilots had ejected from two aircraft.
Sir when will we know about March 5 incident , there was a lot of Twitter discussion those days
This Guy From Kyle Wilson from Luke Base -- that is why he is called Luke Airman got this award Two Years Ago
Why is Tom Cooper writing about it now
Luke Airman receives service-level award for security of PAF F-16 technology
LUKE AIR FORCE BASE, Ariz. -- A Luke Airman was recognized in his efforts for excelling above and beyond in his career while working alongside the Pakistani Air Force (PAF), continuously monitoring the PAF F-16 Fighting Falcon’s advanced technology.
Whatsoever, infront world we didn't act on Pakistan's reaction. That's not going to change.
That's the difference between Israel and India (wannabe Israel).
Any idea about the pilots? Initially i think that people were claiming Siddiqui was the martyred pilot.
Yaar how does it matter whether Ind shot one of their's best or they shot one of India's old. The fact is, India conducted strike and they came in broad day light and unfortunately caught one of India's pilot which hurt India's further missions. In a war there will be loses. Next time please don't send pilots who are brats of some high ranking officers.
do you mean to say we should give nice postings to the sons of senior officers and let other pilots fight the war? Are they children of lesser gods?
Keep them in non flying core. It becomes tough and unneccesary pressure mounts on the government behind the doors to bring back the chap. Unlike in case of Fl lt. Nachiketa, he didn't have a high ranking dad.
Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot
ISLAMABAD: A civilian lecturer of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has petitioned before the Lahore High Court (LHC), Rawalpindi bench, to set aside his conviction over a leaked call with a pilot — one of his former students — in which he congratulated him for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.Indian Air Force pilot Varthaman, who was captured by Pakistan in 2019 after his MiG-21 Bison aircraft was shot down by a PAF jet, was recently awarded the Vir Chakra — the third-highest wartime gallantry award after Param Vir Chakra and Maha Vir Chakra — by the Indian government.
The petitioner, Hafiz Farooq Ahmed Khan who was working at PAF College Lower Topa, Murree, faced court martial after his telephonic conversation with the PAF pilot went viral on social media.
As per details of the case, Khan was recruited as a civilian lecturer in PAF College in June 1999 through the Federal Public Service Commission (FPSC).
He was charged and subsequently convicted by the Court Martial under the provisions of the Official Secrets Act, 1923.
In his petition, Mr Khan stated that on the evening of Feb 27, 2019, he and his wife were watching television at his official residence in PAF College, Lower Topa.
While watching the news about two Indian aircraft being shot down by the PAF during a standoff between the two countries, Mr Khan called up his old student, who was an air force fighter pilot, to congratulate him, the petition added.
It stated that the call lasted two minutes and 27 seconds, during which Mr Khan exchanged congratulatory remarks with the pilot, who stated on his own, without being questioned by the petitioner, that whatever was being shown on media was not even 30pc and that there had been 350 casualties on ground.
The petition then explained how the call got leaked and went viral on social media.
Mr Khan admitted in the plea that he had forwarded the same call to 61 of his relatives and friends out of sheer excitement and pride and to highlight PAF spirit. “Ultimately, the said call went viral on social media and was noticed/detected by the Air Intelligence Agency of PAF,” he said.
The teacher was held on July 8, 2019 and was court-martialled on four charges under Section 71 of the PAF Act, 1953. He was accused of committing an offence for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or interest of the State, while having conversation…recorded information about PAF Air Operations, which might directly or indirectly be useful to an enemy, “unauthorised possession of document/information”, “failed to take reasonable care of the same resulting into leakage of the said information on social media” and unauthorised dissemination of air operations to over 60 contacts.
During the court martial proceedings, Khan pleaded “not guilty” following which the prosecution recorded the evidence of 11 witnesses and presented certain documents while in his defence the teacher produced his wife and four other witnesses.
Khan was sentenced to rigorous imprisonment of two years and eight months vide by the Field General Court Martial. The base commander remitted the sentence by eight months and reduced it to 24 months.
The petitioner then filed an appeal before the PAF Appellate Tribunal that further remitted the sentence by one year and two months.
He contended that since there was no alternative forum available for review, the LHC could invoke the constitutional jurisdiction of Article 199 to administer justice.
Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot
The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.
www.dawn.com
@randomradio @vstol JockeyLecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot
ISLAMABAD: A civilian lecturer of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has petitioned before the Lahore High Court (LHC), Rawalpindi bench, to set aside his conviction over a leaked call with a pilot — one of his former students — in which he congratulated him for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.
Indian Air Force pilot Varthaman, who was captured by Pakistan in 2019 after his MiG-21 Bison aircraft was shot down by a PAF jet, was recently awarded the Vir Chakra — the third-highest wartime gallantry award after Param Vir Chakra and Maha Vir Chakra — by the Indian government.
The petitioner, Hafiz Farooq Ahmed Khan who was working at PAF College Lower Topa, Murree, faced court martial after his telephonic conversation with the PAF pilot went viral on social media.
As per details of the case, Khan was recruited as a civilian lecturer in PAF College in June 1999 through the Federal Public Service Commission (FPSC).
He was charged and subsequently convicted by the Court Martial under the provisions of the Official Secrets Act, 1923.
In his petition, Mr Khan stated that on the evening of Feb 27, 2019, he and his wife were watching television at his official residence in PAF College, Lower Topa.
While watching the news about two Indian aircraft being shot down by the PAF during a standoff between the two countries, Mr Khan called up his old student, who was an air force fighter pilot, to congratulate him, the petition added.
It stated that the call lasted two minutes and 27 seconds, during which Mr Khan exchanged congratulatory remarks with the pilot, who stated on his own, without being questioned by the petitioner, that whatever was being shown on media was not even 30pc and that there had been 350 casualties on ground.
The petition then explained how the call got leaked and went viral on social media.
Mr Khan admitted in the plea that he had forwarded the same call to 61 of his relatives and friends out of sheer excitement and pride and to highlight PAF spirit. “Ultimately, the said call went viral on social media and was noticed/detected by the Air Intelligence Agency of PAF,” he said.
The teacher was held on July 8, 2019 and was court-martialled on four charges under Section 71 of the PAF Act, 1953. He was accused of committing an offence for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or interest of the State, while having conversation…recorded information about PAF Air Operations, which might directly or indirectly be useful to an enemy, “unauthorised possession of document/information”, “failed to take reasonable care of the same resulting into leakage of the said information on social media” and unauthorised dissemination of air operations to over 60 contacts.
During the court martial proceedings, Khan pleaded “not guilty” following which the prosecution recorded the evidence of 11 witnesses and presented certain documents while in his defence the teacher produced his wife and four other witnesses.
Khan was sentenced to rigorous imprisonment of two years and eight months vide by the Field General Court Martial. The base commander remitted the sentence by eight months and reduced it to 24 months.
The petitioner then filed an appeal before the PAF Appellate Tribunal that further remitted the sentence by one year and two months.
He contended that since there was no alternative forum available for review, the LHC could invoke the constitutional jurisdiction of Article 199 to administer justice.
Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot
The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.www.dawn.com
a) Many many years ago, I read an interview by Rajesh pilot (the deceased politician) about his experiences in 1971 war. He said that he (+ other pilots) were sent to drop their payloads somewhere on now bangladesh. He said he was feeling scared flying over enemy territory that they know is well defended. On his communication device, he was hearing a familiar voice commanding him to drop his height and release the payload. However, he was suspecting if those commands were from his commander (or) from a pakistani imposter asking him to drop his height so that they can fire their anti-aircraft weapons.....during this moment of indecision by the pilots, his commander realised that they (i.e. pilots) are not following his instructions, so he used some sort of gaali. After listening to that familiar gaali, Rajest pilot was convinced that those instructions were from his commander and not a pak imposter....and executed accordingly.
b) The reason I wrote point-a is because - even in 1971, our pilots feared that pakistanis can break into their communications and give wrong instructions or similar. The pilots themselves were suspecting if it their commander or enemy imposter.
Quesions are:
q1) Despite knowing the importance of secure communications , why did IAF not work on securing the communication between pilots and their commanders even till 02/2019? like SDR or similar?. @randomradio - in the past you mentioned that IAF is one of the first air-forces to have SDRs, but a recent poster at P. D. F said that PAF had SDRs from early 2000s,which means that what PAF had in early 2000s, IAF did not have till after 2019. Could that be true?
q2) I think both of you are / related to IAF + have much better understand and hence sympathetic towards IAF, but for a noooooooby like me, the idea that PAF can listen to IAF communication between pilots and commanders on 02/2019 is very dis-concerting? [was the PAF listening to the communication or they simply jammed / blinded it]?
q3) Somehow, PAF so easily [was it easy?] jamming communication and making our pilots fly blind with such efficiency [lack of better words] is sort of not sitting well in my brain.
@Bon Plan @A Person @Picdelamirand-oil
Please tell from french perspective. PAF jamming the communication between Abhinandan & his handlers was a huge gap left open by IAF (or) Is it the same with most airforces? For ex: had it been french air force Vs PAF on 02/2019, could PAF have jammed (or listened) communcation between french pilots and their handlers? and the french pilots flying blind in enemy territory?
PS#1: As my questions indicate - I am a noooooooby.
PS#2: Everything written in point-a is what I recall from that interview. Please take it in the spirit, and not punch holes on it [I read that interview on newspaper i.e. not web-site and it was published when he was still living].
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I've got nothing to do with the IAF.
The entire Indo-Pak skirmish was choreographed from Ambala air base. Can't do that if comm systems were jammed.
Sqn Ldr Minty Agarwal was the one who instructed our wing commander to go cold before he crossed the LoC. So comms were working fine throughout the engagement. Furthermore, our WC used his radar to detect the F-16 before launching the R-73, so even the radar wasn't jammed.
Dhanoa refutes reports claiming IAF lacked operational data link during Balakot airstrike
Air Chief Marshal (retd) BS Dhanoa, who headed the Air Force at the time of Balakot airstrike, on Sunday refuted reports that claimed there was an absence of operational data link during the strike.Speaking to ANI here on sidelines of an event, Dhanoa said that news reports about jets going...
As for Pakistan and SDR, while I do not know what the JF-17 is using, the F-16/Erieye combo are not. The US has developed an SDR called JTRS, but it's yet to be deployed on fighter jets. The US doesn't allow unilateral changes or upgrades to comm systems on export fighters that use their comm systems. The JTRS is being used on the ground and in force multipliers since 2013 in the US, since these systems are the ones that need to do the most transmission. In that sense, India's IACCS is also software-defined and has been in use since 2010, alongside the ODL (operational data link).
The US is yet to adopt such a system like the BNET on fighter jets. Their JTRS-Link 16-TTNT combo will provide them a BNET type capability.
US, Allies Getting Larger Airborne Network With New JTRS Radios - Breaking Defense
The software defined radios will make F/A-18E/F and F-22 aircraft communications nodes in a coalition network.