Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Because twin seaters are prefered for strike missions, since it eases the workload, when the WSO can focus on guiding weapons for example. All Israeli F16 Sufas are twin seaters (the even asked for a twin seat F35 initially), France uses a larger number of twin seat Rafales and the Mirage strike versions were twin seaters too.
Doesn't look like a match, R25 lines are along the curvature the broken part lines are across the curvature, though in that video of Mig 21 crashed of Croatia it looked like a match but then in another video of f16 also it looked like a match. Also heard a Mig 21 was dismantled to match this part and no match was found, probably in Pathankot.
Not for that. Had there been any pilots, we would have accepted their capture, just like we accepted Mr Kulbhushan.
The GoI was willing to press ahead without speaking to Pakistan about the pilot. The US intervened yet again, seeking time to work out a diplomatic solution and we have in front of us, what exactly was played out.
For starters, US clearly told Pakistan that India will target Pakistani sites with missiles in next phase, with the camps being a target and if Pilot was released by Pakistan as a gesture, US would bring pressure on India to desist. In turn, for India, US has asked time to get Pakistani authorities on same page as the Government - please note it is not GoP but PA I refer to here, and the only way India can force PA to act is by pressurizing them along LC.
The tempo of operations is quite high along LC and likely to increase further.
Worst fears coming true 
Mi17 crash could be due to friendly fire. Could be because it was flying blind and Air defence took it as Pakistani UAV targeting military base.
I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
Mi17 crash could be due to friendly fire. Could be because it was flying blind and Air defence took it as Pakistani UAV targeting military base.I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
Worst fears coming true
I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
Yes I too thought so..
Especially when someone told behind the enemy lines if pilot is still alive and not captured , we should send special forces to extract him..
There is no rescue mission when crashed outside of our Loc.Worst fears coming true
I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
Lol. A fight between two broke, not too fit nor agile drunkards. That's what this is.Worst fears coming true
I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
P. S - I only hope the planners and executors of Op Gaganshakti and those who cheered the so called " findings " from it , derive the right lessons and sober up.
Defence Ministry should seriously consider budgetary allocations of IAF. They should keep bare minimum of 30-40 Su30 and other jets should be sold to some other country and renaming assets to be transferred to Army Aviation Corps and Indian Naval Air arm.
40 is enough to participate in air shows all around the world with showstopper Pugachev Cobra maneuver.
2016 strikes were flawless but in these strikes IAF created more doubts and questions then one can answer. Everything is doubtful and with new information coming in daily it looks like a mess. This is when whole nation was behind you, PM was in your pocket and your adversary was equally incompetent and was numerically overwhelmed. If it was some serious Air force against IAF I don't know what would have happened.
Amazing people they are, want shiny new expensive foreign toys yet keep losing them even in peace time. Indian weapons are strict no and if it was not Parikars forceful shoving down the throat Tejas program would have been scrapped by now. Hardly any example of bad mouthing of own weapons is seen in history. IAF kept sabotaging the project and almost killed it.
Foreign maal obsession also raises questions of commission like Tyagi, we don't know how many such Tyagis are let go silently so as not to defame forces and trust of nation on them. For 2 years Tejas missed WVR target firing Russian missile but all is ignored in name of national interest and nobody ask why is it not working yet? Why we need to rely on that same missile.
Navy and Army has now to clear the mess. I am not asking for proofs of air strike but when a counter proof from 3rd party is available why the hell is those images not released unless they actually missed the target.
F16 were firing AMRAAM but no we should stay back, duck, hide behind ROE, which ROE says to hold back when fired upon? More so when you have superior platform and upper hand? When you are looking only for a tactical victory and not all out war? Why would you let that go? @vstol Jockey sir were you able to find why we held back that day and why no counter offensive was launched immediately? They planned for 12 days, something "big" is about to happen said US, it's impossible they didn't have taken into account Pakistani counter and our response to that.
I doubt any other PM will give this much of autonomy to IAF again to launch any offensive and more so after this lukewarm result.
Exactly. No one uas an answer for this question in India. All we are doing on this forum is drowning in our own propaganda.
What i figured is we will not retaliate, becos if we do so will pakistan and India getting its *censored* kicked is bad for elections
Are you implying that our airforce showed incompetence and missed all the targets and later lost a mig? Let's say that's true. In that case IAF and GOI falsifying info will be far worse. Same people who support Modi will Lynch him. We have had plenty of screw ups before and aren't afraid to reveal them.
No, I disagree that our administration is lying here. If that were the case, they wouldn't make such bold claims of 300 dead and f-16 shot down. Our defence minister even claimed to know the identity of the deceased pilot.
But you are right on one account. The GOI is hiding something. At least I think so.
Little birdie here made a post long back....Worst fears coming true
I was watching news live when all this was happening, there was a news or Mig 21 crash later it turns out to be Mi17 as this incident happened at around 10:15 and Mig 21 crashed before 10 in POK.
Very possible news of crash of Mig 21 was realized in almost real time but with this crash Air force decided to wait and let things clear out leaving reporters in dark which they later corrected to as Mi 17 crash as it's debris were located almost immediately.
I just pray that my 2nd worst fear of it being on Search and Rescue mission after Mig 21 crash don't come true as this helo started flight right after crash of Mig21 but it was far away from dogfight so possible it was on some other mission. We lost 6 personnel in this, heartbreaking.
Also that F16 could be shot down by friendly fire too.
Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash | Mi 17
Clue: "Fog of War"
I never said GOI is lying. Infact i dont believe IAF missed its targets. What im saying is IAF is incompetent for not updating the ROE after the strike and allowing PAF to claim a strike on our land.
No matter how many senior members on this forum defend it, IAF has screwed up the whole narrative. The message india sent out is everytime we bomb a “terrorist” non military target beyond our borders we will accept an equal strike to give a face saving to our foe. Not just face saving actually but might as well lose a jet or two to satisfy our foes ego too.
I wont blame any specific indian for this sort of thinking, its in our mental pysch to take a beating shamelessly and go about our lives as long as it doesn’t effect our pockets.
Few years ago I read about a study in US why indian professionals are preferred in IT over other nationalities. It’s because the are very submissive, can taking a beating and will not hit back. Indians are the last once to sue an employer in US. Infact they are the immigrants with least amount of legal cases.
Martyr Sqn. Ldr. Ajay Ahuja was 66th Delta squadron. He lived in a room across my room and was our Academics Captain in the squadron.
In 1971 war, One IN Alize was shot down by friendly fire. Does anyone know about it?
We
Well I agree with you about the fact that the IAF could have handled this a lot more competently and the submissive nature of Indians. That being said , at some level , it is a failure of both our military and civilian authorities' long term planning. We should have had the capability by now to hit the Pakistanis at will anytime. And also information warfare, by having some concrete proof ready for public consumption as soon as the strike happened. God knows what would have happened if we were facing an adversary that was competent and was on more equal terms with us in terms of manpower, resources and equipment.
Over Arabian sea next to Jamnagar towards Karachi. Alizes had very good elint at that time and a few of them were operating to support IAF in that area. INAS-310 has a mention of this crash. They were in the next hanger as my INAS-300 sqn.
The irony is the baba black sheep with a twitter account has done more damage to pakistans narrative than the whole IAF in the last 3 decades.