Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

Possible PAF doctrine used on 27th feb ( currently in use) decoded

paf f16 in adf role carried 4 aim120c5 ( charli) which have effective 94% + kill probability in 31,000 feet with host aircraft having speed above 1.3 m, in a text book method the adf escorts climb high altitude to maximize their launch range while they put their radar on SAM mod (situational awareness mode) or TWS mod ( track while scan ) thus it will help them to keep a lock on tango with out triggering RWR, once they reach 60 or 55 mile they launch fox 3( aim120c) which will follow loft fly path to target, after launch missile will climb higher alitude than the f16 max altitude where air is thinner and have very less friction which will again increase the effective range, mean while it's is important to keep the lock on rango becoz break of lock will force the missile to go pitbul early and trigger rwr of tango which will give enough time to evade the missile, so instead of u forcing missile to go pitbul the missile go pitbul terminal phase which is between 4 to 3 miles range with speed in range of mac2.5 to 3, due to this the tango have less than 5 sec of response time which is not enough to make any evasive action


This analysis obtained by using simulation software falcon BMS and dcs, also other open source platforms, even this mode only guaranty 100%kill only when no AWACS present on tango side or enemy AWACS not detect BVR missile firing ( unlikely)
 
What!!
Pakistan lost in 71 due to a cyclone.
So all that Niaizi , 90k soldiers surrendering blah blah was a lie 😭😭😭
Poor endia
 
National geographic documentary on the balakot conflict - for " freedom fighters " on 'ahem' both sides of the border



allamudila braithers you just wasted 12 minutes of your life , national geographic never made the above documentary. It's fake video :ROFLMAO:
 
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hellbent said:
National geographic documentary on the balakot conflict - for " freedom fighters " on 'ahem' both sides of the border



allamudila braithers you just wasted 12 minutes of your life , national geographic never made the above documentary. It's fake video :ROFLMAO:
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What's that on the bottom left hand corner of the screen? Prolife or have Paxtanis misspelt Profile as usual.
 
In PDF there's an argument about the ARAAM part shown by IAF officials. It seems that the proximity fuse has gone off which can happen only if the AMRAAM hits a target. So they use this argument to say that our MKI was hit. Not sure if the proximity fuse can go off if the missile hits chaff or flares, but this possibility has been dismissed in PDF.

What is the counter to the above point?
 
thinkingcap81 said:
In PDF there's an argument about the ARAAM part shown by IAF officials. It seems that the proximity fuse has gone off which can happen only if the AMRAAM hits a target. So they use this argument to say that our MKI was hit. Not sure if the proximity fuse can go off if the missile hits chaff or flares, but this possibility has been dismissed in PDF.

What is the counter to the above point?
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Every AAM has a self destruct switch which destroys the missile in case it fails to hit the target. This is a safety feature to avoid destruction on ground. The AMRAAM which was shown by IAF had exploded due to this safety switch. In case it has exploded due to proximity fuse, nothing of the missile would have survived.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Every AAM has a self destruct switch which destroys the missile in case it fails to hit the target. This is a safety feature to avoid destruction on ground. The AMRAAM which was shown by IAF had exploded due to this safety switch. In case it has exploded due to proximity fuse, nothing of the missile wpuld have survived.
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It struck a house on ground and the owner gave it to police from there it was given to army.
 
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Experts - few questions:
a) Why did Mirage-2000 not fire MICA or similar weapons? Do they not want to get into WVR (assuming MICA is WVR weapon)? Does the ROE did not let them? Were the radar of M2000s jammed (as Pak claims)?
b) Why did the SU-30 MKI not fire R-73 or similar? Do they not want to get into WVR (as it's weapons do not have the range as AIM120-C5)? Does the ROE did not let them? Is there no time as the MKIs were dodging the C5 missiles?
c) Was IAF found wanting in it's actions (by any means) on Feb-27?
d) India claims that they shot down F-16. Is it complex task to have a satellite photo graph those areas? Is it not possible to get a satellite photo or similar?
e) Did the pakistanis do anything extra-ordinary on feb-27? Or is it more like "normal"? like - maintain numerical superiority, fire BVRs at D-Max ranges, and drop ordinance before they get any response and run.....
f) Why did the MI-17 take off when the border is hot? Is it a mistake? If yes, then how come such a mistake happened? There must be a slip at multiple levels.
@randomradio @vstol Jockey & other experts
 
jk007 said:
Experts - few questions:
a) Why did Mirage-2000 not fire MICA or similar weapons? Do they not want to get into WVR (assuming MICA is WVR weapon)? Does the ROE did not let them? Were the radar of M2000s jammed (as Pak claims)?
b) Why did the SU-30 MKI not fire R-73 or similar? Do they not want to get into WVR (as it's weapons do not have the range as AIM120-C5)? Does the ROE did not let them? Is there no time as the MKIs were dodging the C5 missiles?
c) Was IAF found wanting in it's actions (by any means) on Feb-27?
d) India claims that they shot down F-16. Is it complex task to have a satellite photo graph those areas? Is it not possible to get a satellite photo or similar?
e) Did the pakistanis do anything extra-ordinary on feb-27? Or is it more like "normal"? like - maintain numerical superiority, fire BVRs at D-Max ranges, and drop ordinance before they get any response and run.....
f) Why did the MI-17 take off when the border is hot? Is it a mistake? If yes, then how come such a mistake happened? There must be a slip at multiple levels.
@randomradio @vstol Jockey & other experts
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Discussed all before. Go through the previous pages.
 
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one of our f-16 was tracking abhi wingman and someone from our side fired a missile towards your jet. the jet was probably abhi wingman. there was one f-16 who was tracking your abhi wingman. nobody knows the reality. both countries should release the information now. what are they waiting for? another air battle? i am telling you another air battle is very much a possibility.
 
Arsalan123 said:
one of our f-16 was tracking abhi wingman and someone from our side fired a missile towards your jet. the jet was probably abhi wingman. there was one f-16 who was tracking your abhi wingman. nobody knows the reality. both countries should release the information now. what are they waiting for? another air battle? i am telling you another air battle is very much a possibility.
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I had posted here screen shots from the video of two ejection seats falling after one aircraft hitting the ground. That is a very clear evidence of a twin seater F-16 having been shot down.
 
vstol Jockey said:
Every AAM has a self destruct switch which destroys the missile in case it fails to hit the target. This is a safety feature to avoid destruction on ground. The AMRAAM which was shown by IAF had exploded due to this safety switch. In case it has exploded due to proximity fuse, nothing of the missile would have survived.
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They said that it can be visually identified that the proximity fuse has gone off in AMRAAM part shown by IAF. This was pointed out by a member claiming to be a westerner, though i seriously doubt that he(she?) is a westerner.
 
Arsalan123 said:
one of our f-16 was tracking abhi wingman and someone from our side fired a missile towards your jet. the jet was probably abhi wingman. there was one f-16 who was tracking your abhi wingman. nobody knows the reality. both countries should release the information now. what are they waiting for? another air battle? i am telling you another air battle is very much a possibility.
Click to expand...

I also posted video here where your gafoora says the second pilot is dead, no reply for that any pakistanis and conveniently ignored.
 
thinkingcap81 said:
They said that it can be visually identified that the proximity fuse has gone off in AMRAAM part shown by IAF. This was pointed out by a member claiming to be a westerner, though i seriously doubt that he(she?) is a westerner.
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The proximity fuse and self destruct actuation are two very different things. Proximity fuse going off will destroy the whole missile but the self destruct will not. Most SAMs/AAMs are designed to get deactivated and plungh down in case they do not hit a target. the heavier SAMs are designed to blow off in air to avoid debris hitting people on ground. The person who is making these statements on PDF seems to be an idiot with zero knowledge of AAMs.
All AAMs are electronically armed before firing by the launch aircraft systems. The proximity fuse sets off by a detonater which explodes the warhead. Once the missile runs thru its course and does not find a target, the seeker and the detonater is deactivated and the missile slams to the ground to avoid fratricide or hitting an unintended target. This mechanism is called self destruct mechanism and AMRAAM has it.
 
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Arsalan123 said:
one of our f-16 was tracking abhi wingman and someone from our side fired a missile towards your jet. the jet was probably abhi wingman. there was one f-16 who was tracking your abhi wingman. nobody knows the reality. both countries should release the information now. what are they waiting for? another air battle? i am telling you another air battle is very much a possibility.
Click to expand...
Based on the radar picture released, we know the position of assets in air including four enemy aircraft. My assumption is that both MIGs cross LOC from south end taking north curve, Erieye gives order to north-west F16s to engage MIGs. Watching this, IAF controllers ask MIGs to return. Wingman takes hard curve to further north-east, Abhinandan presses ahead for few more moments depending on his radar scan results, his missile gives the tone having target/targets in its view and range. He fires and increases the hard north-east turn angle bit behind his wingman. At the same time one of the south-west F16(from Mangla reservoir area) fires AMRAAM on his jet, north-west F16 fire on his wingman who is further north to his position. In a simple design, say like S. Total three jets fire missiles, two get downed. Wingman reaches India safely with AMRAAM falling in Indian territory, this was the missile which was shown in evening. Mangla reservoir F16 safe, Abhinandan's wingman safe, now only two jets downed that's Abhinandan's jet and the jet who engaged his wingman. This is again an assumption from my side depending on radar picture and the videos/pictures released in public domain. My theory is that if north west F16 had gone cold on Abhinandan's wingman, he might have escaped from Abhinandan's missile probably. But as he kept decreasing the distance between his jet and wingman jet, he himself got caught in Abhinandan's missile range, Erieye might have put him in mortal danger unknowingly. That is, as I said in my opinion again, is only a theory based on logic and data available. Thank you.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
The proximity fuse and self destruct actuation are two very different things. Proximity fuse going off will destroy the whole missile but the self destruct will not. Most SAMs/AAMs are designed to get deactivated and plungh down in case they do not hit a target. the heavier SAMs are designed to blow off in air to avoid debris hitting people on ground. The person who is making these statements on PDF seems to be an idiot with zero knowledge of AAMs.
All AAMs are electronically armed before firing by the launch aircraft systems. The proximity fuse sets off by a detonater which explodes the warhead. Once the missile runs thru its course and does not find a target, the seeker and the detonater is deactivated and the missile slams to the ground to avoid fratricide or hitting an unintended target. This mechanism is called self destruct mechanism and AMRAAM has it.
Click to expand...

Suppose a missile proximity fuse sets off by closing in on a target. What will happen ext? will the front part of the missile (radome/antenna section and electronic and control section) blasts off from the missile to open up the payload section to fire the projectiles and later the boom? just like 'behind the enemy lines' scene
 
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