Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

[vstol Jockey]

Suppose a missile proximity fuse sets off by closing in on a target. What will happen ext? will the front part of the missile (radome/antenna section and electronic and control section) blasts off from the missile to open up the payload section to fire the projectiles and later the boom? just like 'behind the enemy lines' scene

I had answered this long long back when Pakistan produced the missile head of R-73. The seeker is in front and the warhead is behind it. So when the missile explodes, the seeker will fall of as a complete segment. Go thru the initial pages of this thread and you will see the intact seeker heads of the missiles.

 

[Arsalan123]

I had posted here screen shots from the video of two ejection seats falling after one aircraft hitting the ground. That is a very clear evidence of a twin seater F-16 having been shot down.

Nobody knows reality. Release information before another similar air battle.

 

[Hydra]

I had answered this long long back when Pakistan produced the missile head of R-73. The seeker is in front and the warhead is behind it. So when the missile explodes, the seeker will fall of as a complete segment. Go thru the initial pages of this thread and you will see the intact seeker heads of the missiles.

Hi, you may remember my name from another forum, was an active member in two different forums earlier.

A query, who died on that day from PAF. A pilot is precious asset for PAF and i don't think his death cannot be hide from media or from his family & his neighborhood.

@vstol Jockey And an off topic query, what happened to "Parikrama" is he still active in forums?

 

[Chain Smoker]

Hi, you may remember my name from another forum, was an active member in two different forums earlier.

A query, who died on that day from PAF. A pilot is precious asset for PAF and i don't think his death cannot be hide from media or from his family & his neighborhood.

@vstol Jockey And an off topic query, what happened to "Parikrama" is he still active in forums?

hydra3

 

[Hydra]

hydra3

You want to ban me here too? Well "Hydra" was my original name in other two forums ( one indian forum & one foreign forum), hydra3 was the name i have chose for Older Forum( first time joined in 2020).
Free to check my profile description & new member introduction page.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Hi, you may remember my name from another forum, was an active member in two different forums earlier.

A query, who died on that day from PAF. A pilot is precious asset for PAF and i don't think his death cannot be hide from media or from his family & his neighborhood.

@vstol Jockey And an off topic query, what happened to "Parikrama" is he still active in forums?

The pilot who died was most likely Shabaz but can't be sure. His family did protest but were asked to keep shut.
@Parikrama is missing and no one knows what happenned to him.

 

[Hydra]

The pilot who died was most likely Shabaz but can't be sure. His family did protest but were asked to keep shut.
@Parikrama is missing and no one knows what happenned to him.

Unfortunate, on parikrama's case. he has initiated many good threads earlier.

 

[Chain Smoker]

The pilot who died was most likely Shabaz but can't be sure. His family did protest but were asked to keep shut.
@Parikrama is missing and no one knows what happenned to him.

yup he is I have seen his family friends moaning on Facebook plus one guy from PDF also confirmed that his doctor father who was posted in CMH saw dead pilot.

You want to ban me here too? Well "Hydra" was my original name in other two forums ( one indian forum & one foreign forum), hydra3 was the name i have chose for Older Forum( first time joined in 2020).
Free to check my profile description & new member introduction page.

well u messed up quite a lot there with username hydra3.

 

[Hydra]

It's highly likely, training is a major factor. For instance, most state police forces don't even know how to hold a weapon...let alone firing it in an active-shooter situation. During 26/11, Marcos reached the spot but couldn't encounter the terrorists except for evacuating a few hostages in empty floors where there was no hostile presence. Even the NSG took 3 days to eliminate em. During the Pathankot attack, despite Garuds presence in the IAF base, NSG had to be flown in from Manesar and it literally took us 4 days to eliminate 6 attackers followed by a 5 day clean up op. Our strategy has always been to wear down the enemy and make em run outta ammunition prior to an all-out assault. On that note, even Pakistanis have eliminated way quicker during such attacks like the Peshawar school massacre where SSG eliminated all 6 attackers within a day

IAF has also claimed to have shot down higher number of aircrafts during simulation and joint exercises with the west but that's simply not true and is for domestic consumption while our audience go gaga over it. If you see videos of our joint exercises, even our SF rappelling down from the choppers is sloppier than some regular western units

In regards to the emergency landing of AH-64, it's more likely to be training over a malfunction since Apaches have a pretty good reliability record and these are spanking new. Coupled with shoddy maintenance, I wouldn't be surprised if we see crashes of western equipment


After 26/11

Yeah, if IAF was as good as advertised in international training exercise we would have shoot down minimum 50% of aggressors in feb27.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Yeah, if IAF was as good as advertised in international training exercise we would have shoot down minimum 50% of aggressors in feb27.

Training and ability of human part of IAF is no less than what you may find in France, Japan or UK.

Feb 27 was an excellent proof of the capabilities.

What our men win or may win in the battlefield is always given away by the leadership and babudom of the country.

The day PAF actually starts flying even 50% of what IAF indulges in , half of its Mirage and F7 fleet will crash within 48 hours.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Training and ability of human part of IAF is no less than what you may find in France, Japan or UK.

Feb 27 was an excellent proof of the capabilities.

What our men win or may win in the battlefield is always given away by the leadership and babudom of the country.

The day PAF actually starts flying even 50% of what IAF indulges in , half of its Mirage and F7 fleet will crash within 48 hours.

I think @Austerlitz was among the first to point out this anomaly or at least he was the first I happened to read on the subject matter. There's a massive disjunct in our operational philosophy & the equipment we use.

We derived our operational philosophy from the West namely intensive training & the equipment we use are mostly Russian, relatively easy to procure & light on the pocket which in turn isn't exactly durable , long lasting & certainly is maintenance intensive.

It's certainly quite a task to maintain professionalism in such circumstances.

 

[Hydra]

Training and ability of human part of IAF is no less than what you may find in France, Japan or UK.

Feb 27 was an excellent proof of the capabilities.

What our men win or may win in the battlefield is always given away by the leadership and babudom of the country.

The day PAF actually starts flying even 50% of what IAF indulges in , half of its Mirage and F7 fleet will crash within 48 hours.

Training, ability, preparedness, professionalism, tactics, equipment matters. If all these things functioned properly, its a disaster.
Training: We will not be knowing the exact methodology. We have to beleive what IAF & others says on it in this case and most of the friendly nations admitted that our training is of top end. But there is a video on youtube who compariPAF vs IAF, asper that video fighter pilot selection process of PAF is superior and only creamiest of the best will end up as PAF pilot.
Ability : No one is doubting on our airmen over here.
Preparedness : It was ill prepared for possible after balakot events & for an escalation.IAF was not prepared /anticipated a retaliation from PAF, limited CAP missions shows that. IAF's panic buy spree after feb27 shows that extends of ill preparation for a full-scale.
Professionalism: Abhi shouldn't have break the ROE.
Tactics: Stupendous on february 26&27.Except abhinandan no one has fallen to the trap prepared by PAF.
Equipment : One minute silence.

 

[AbRaj]

Training, ability, preparedness, professionalism, tactics, equipment matters. If all these things functioned properly, its a disaster.
Training: We will not be knowing the exact methodology. We have to beleive what IAF & others says on it in this case and most of the friendly nations admitted that our training is of top end. But there is a video on youtube who compariPAF vs IAF, asper that video fighter pilot selection process of PAF is superior and only creamiest of the best will end up as PAF pilot.
Ability : No one is doubting on our airmen over here.
Preparedness : It was ill prepared for possible after balakot events & for an escalation.IAF was not prepared /anticipated a retaliation from PAF, limited CAP missions shows that. IAF's panic buy spree after feb27 shows that extends of ill preparation for a full-scale.
Professionalism: Abhi shouldn't have break the ROE.
Tactics: Stupendous on february 26&27.Except abhinandan no one has fallen to the trap prepared by PAF.
Equipment : One minute silence.

All the above points you mentioned are hogwash and pure baloney. Anyway please continue to enlighten us with your wisdom.

 

[Ashwin]

Yeah, if IAF was as good as advertised in international training exercise we would have shoot down minimum 50% of aggressors in feb27.

What kind of logic is that? What was our objective? Why would we shoot down aircraft in their airspace?

Also, Don't derail threads. Find the appropriate one and ask questions there.

 

[Hydra]

What kind of logic is that? What was our objective? Why would we shoot down aircraft in their airspace?

Also, Don't derail threads. Find the appropriate one and ask questions there.

Wondering what kind of logic you are talking? They came with an intention to destroy you, they have dropped ammunition inside your own military complex ( an act of war). I think its a good reason for IAF to shoot down enemy.

I know its hurt, initially i too could not cope with the fact that IAF had lacuna in its preparedness on feb27. Any argument such IAF was not asked, MKI was in low altitude, out numbered all are excuses to pacify our own consciousness.

Forget to add Congress too brought such self pacifying statement on loss of aksaichin in 1962 war.

 

[Ashwin]

Wondering what kind of logic you are talking? They came with an intention to destroy you, they have dropped ammunition inside your own military complex ( an act of war). I think its a good reason for IAF to shoot down enemy.

I know its hurt, initially i too could not cope with the fact that IAF had lacuna in its preparedness on feb27. Any argument such IAF was not asked, MKI was in low altitude, out numbered all are excuses to pacify our own consciousness.

A formation inside Pakistan airspace does not mean they are going 'destroy' you. Even if they approach LoC/IB you can't do anything. They have to cross 10km buffer which is called 'technical violation'. At this stage our QRF (Mig-21) takes off and Su-30s in south got direction from AWACS to intercept for 'possible' LoC violation.

Now, Handfull of F-16s has violated airspace, They were inside ours for <2min. Mig-21s chased and shoot down one F-16, in that process Abhinanann crossed LoC and got shot by wingman F-16. The glided bomb-dropping aircraft was inside Pakistani airspace. The entire formation was of 3 groups and 24 aircraft. That formation was defended by <5 of our fighter in the area. Our objective was the defense of LoC which we did. You cant defend against glide bombs using fighters.

For comparison our six mirages were inside Pakistani airspace for 12 minutes. They couldn't even detect it. The only thing went wrong there was abhinandan's crossing of LoC. Just for a thought experiment, what would have happened if he was not shot down? What did PAF achieve that day?

This 'act of war' and 'intention to destroy you' are all afterthought conclusions. I mean have some proportions, we went into their homes and bombed the shit out. Crossed so many sanctities, obliterate nuclear threats. Give some ways to save face, it is good for use we achived objectives without consequences.

90 pages we have discussed it to death. Why not read through it.

 

[Jaymax]

We are seeing an influx of people whose demands are just stopping short of nuking Pakistan "for daring to intrude on the sacred airspace of our glorious nation".

Screw ROEs, screw orders from the Govt. - Its either our equipment sucks or IAF was blustering or its all Congress's fault </rant>

Barring the painfully obvious mistake with the Mi-17, we did achieve our objectives for the day.

Pak lost their premier fighter,
Pak could not hit targets in a day time mission

Bonus - IAF gathered tons of electronic intelligence.

 

[Hydra]

A formation inside Pakistan airspace does not mean they are going 'destroy' you. Even if they approach LoC/IB you can't do anything. They have to cross 10km buffer which is called 'technical violation'. At this stage our QRF (Mig-21) takes off and Su-30s in got direction from AWACS to intercept for 'possible' LoC violation.

Now, Handfull of F-16s has violated airspace, They were inside ours for <2min. Mig-21s chased and shoot down one F-16, in that process Abhinanann crossed LoC and got shot by wingman F-16. The glided bomb-dropping aircraft was inside Pakistani airspace. The entire formation was of 3 groups and 24 aircraft. That formation was defended by <5 of our fighter in the area. Our objective was the defense of LoC which we did. You cant defend against glide bombs using fighters.

For comparison our six mirages were inside Pakistani airspace for 12 minutes. They couldn't even detect it. The only thing went wrong there was abhinandan's crossing of LoC. Just for a thought experiment, what would have happened if he was not shot down? What did PAF achieve that day?

This 'act of war' and 'intention to destroy you' are all afterthought conclusions. I mean have some proportions, we went into their homes and bombed the shit out. Crossed so many sanctities, obliterate nuclear threats. Give some ways to save face. We crash 30-year-old Migs every other month. Why not contribute some to their museums if we can send messages like this.

90 pages we have discussed it to death. Why not read through it.

Our Air chief & PM is not happy with incidents happened on feb27, thats the reason they preached about that infamous quote on " IF rafale was there results would have different ". An airforce like IAF do deserves mor than that shadowy f16 kill.

 

[Ashwin]

Our Air chief & PM is not happy with incidents happened on feb27, thats the reason they preached about that infamous quote on " IF rafale was there results would have different ". An airforce like IAF do deserves mor than that shadowy f16 kill.

Airforce needs more Rafale and BVRs. It was a perfect opportunity to make the point. Which they did. Every democratic military does that. You should read congressional reports which justify the budget on military requirements. They would be the biggest losers in your book.

Other than games and nationalist imaginary land, you don't kill half of the enemy formation because they had the 'intention to destroy'. That too in peacetime. In the real world, we live with mutually agreed protocols and ROEs. So that misunderstanding does not lead to actual war. What matters is our strategic goals.

 

[Hydra]

Airforce needs more Rafale and BVRs. It was a perfect opportunity to make the point. Which they did. Every democratic military does that. You should read congressional reports which justify the budget on military requirements. They would be the biggest losers in your book.

Other than games and nationalist imaginary land, you don't kill half of the enemy formation because they had the 'intention to destroy'. That too in peacetime. In the real world, we live with mutually agreed protocols and ROEs. So that misunderstanding does not lead to actual war. What matters is our strategic goals.

Any proof for your claim?