IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
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LOLwa, really, what was sourness of the reply and pessimism? or is your reply of the french mindset which is " .. though I dont understand $#iT I have to poke my nose in the middle cos I am French .... " is it?
I doubt there's any truth to this. Only some very, very specific profiles must be affected. And those can be imported from France.
If DRAL provides right pay package, young HAL engineers will be more than happy to jump. However, experienced engineers might not like to relocate due to family commitments, education of kids etc.
Even experienced engineers will quit. What you are referring to are the ones who are 20+ years into HAL, working intermittently and nearing retirement.
Anyway, you need the ones who are <15 years in because they can be easily trained.
I think we have the HMT Vs Titan example before us. If HAL doesn't become autonomous/ privatised soon , it won't be too different from the aforementioned saga.
It will take decades for that to happen. The change will happen once private industry enters R&D.
With AMCA and possibly even FGFA, HAL will continue to dominate India's aerospace industry for 4 more decades.
What significant R&D does HAL boast of ? The MIC are big donors to political campaigns in the US. That should give you a hint of how they'd go about their business here , what with the Ambanis, Adanis , L&T et al in the fray . I wouldn't be as sanguine as You are about HAL's chances in say a good 15 years from today .
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HAL is a PSU and offers job stability. DRAL is a startup. There is massive job insecurity there. Also, there is limited opportunity for such profiles in India. Hence, if a person quits HAL for DRAL and then he loses his job there, where should he go? Pay package is not everything.
What is the problem you have with HAL? HAL has made several items of very high quality like LCH, LUH, Rudra, Su30 manufacture. Hatred towards HAl just because it is government agency is inappropriate.
Hohoho. None minded. But you must provide evidence or logic behind your arguments
Have you seen the delivery speed and what they claimed in 2014 WRT LCA Tejas. HAL was supposed to deliver 4 LCA by march 2015 another 8 by March 2016 and 16 LCA thereafter every year and what they delivered is measly 6 LCA till now don't count sp6 as it is still not delivered. They promised first flight of LCA Mk1A by 2017-18 reality work still not started.
Compare it with Dassault which can deliver 33 Rafales which are more complex to make. Same with Lockheed Martin, Boeing and same with Sukhoi corporation.
Earlier they were delivering 16 Sukhoi30 a year but now only 12, why to delay delivery? National security be damned.
There is no delivery at fast pace as the aim is to just keep infrastructure alive, not to induct Tejas in large numbers. India wants Tejas to run on Indian Kaveri engine and also wants the MK2 variant. This will take time and it is important to ensure that the experience is not forgotten during this period and also to cut imports as much as possible during the meantime.
Producing large number of Tejas will result:
1) Delivery completion before 2024 and hence more orders will be needed t keep the experience alive till Tejas Mk2 with 100% indigenous manufacturing comes up in 2024.
2) High forex expenditure to buy engines and radars
3) Requirement to hire more people who will become jobless on completion of delivery if more orders not given
It is important to understand that the aim of the 123 orders is not merely operational requirement but to upkeep the experience over time. Then you will understand the rationale of slow delivery.
As long as DRDO and ADA control India's military R&D, DPSUs will continue to remain powerful.
It's only after private industry enters the fray will the DPSUs lose power. But that's going to take a long time.
The delay with LCA's supply has more to do with ADA getting IOC than anything else. Production really started only post IOC. And it takes at least 3 years to start delivering aircraft.
Even in USA, the funding for research comes from government. Research is a risky business and especially in defence, there is an added risk of being rejected by government, which is the only buyer. Just saying that the company ownership is private and hence better is not correct. In USA, the money for everything and the risk is from government while the profits go to the private owner. This account to cheating the public. As seen in many projects of USA, there is limited accountability for delays in research by wither LM, Boeing or anyone else.
In Russia, China, state owned companies have worked pretty well - state of the art manner.
I don't see any way of replacing government responsibility for research and risk taking in defence sector. If you have any, please do suggest.
The Assembly time for Tejas is 7 months, faster than F16 which needs a year to assemble. It has been said that this order of 123 Tejas is till 2024 and no new order will come before that for more pieces. Hence, delivery rate is slowed down. HAL has given statements that if order is increased, they can increase production.
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IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
Chatters
F-16 Talks
HAL Pointers
Safranised Kaveri
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IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
Chatters
F-16 Talks
- Post the last meeting and as guided by PM and FM, DM NS was supposed to meet LM representatives once again to talk and understand how a way out can be found with the quick evaluation perspective by IAF
- Post this, the quick meetings requested by LM folks and USA Gov representatives has been refused by DM
- LM and US govt representatives had tried taking up the matter with PM NM but in a flat out answer it has been conveyed that the whole matter is in the hands of MOD owing to certain new developments as described before.
- PM NM also conveyed that there is a far better perspective deal given by French side to India for Rafale MII and thus its difficult to prioritise F-16 MII owing to lack of any counter package which is so much strategic in value.
- OTOH DM NS is maintaining a safe distance as meritorious arguments by IAF with full evidence support their and IN request of Rafale MII first over anything else.
- Recently Vivek Lal has also joined LM and he is known to have very strong connect in PMO and MOD
- DM NS is also trying to remain impartial on paper to absolve herself of any charges later owing to IAF refusal, PMO endorsement and some known ppl like Vivek Lal onboard LM for this deal.
HAL Pointers
- Production rate per year number of HAL has been flagged for many years and now it's in public domain
- On top, HAL has been accusing IAF of not ordering more Russian Jets recently.
- In a paper, HAL mentioned making Su35 = 4 squadrons quickly in HAL facilities with limited changes
- IAF rote back saying acquisition cost versus present MKI will increase by almost 20% for Su-35 on Capex side and maintenance cost will rise up by 50% approx over OPEX side.
- IAF also rebuked stating instead of HAL suggesting Russian Jets, priority should be focussed on LCA project and meeting squadron numbers first over any other new project.
- IAF also submitted to MOD a report stating how such low production rates are hurting IAF more over anything else.
- In a strongly worded message, MOD has told HAL to focus on meeting deadlines over fretting for order books position.
Safranised Kaveri
- Safransied Kaveri is on a bench in France
- The progress is defined as
- M-88 Core insertion and seamless integration.
- The whole Engine recheck part by part/component by component
- Ceramic refit in certain key components done.
- Cooling design for overall and for HP zone + turbine part has been changed.
- Marked increased planned with these changes from present number of 1700K entry temperature zone
- A separate overloaded afterburn testing has been initiated with these changes with the planned performance upgrades.
- Other bench tests planned in coming days
- A status report has been submitted by French side to MOD / IAF.
- IAF and IN has again pressed MOD for prioritising Rafale deal asap.
- A series of meetings are planned for this as well.
- Yesterday Mig29K crash has kind of showed IN frustration and they are going to press for quicker MRCBF selection announcement.
- This augurs well for Rafale MII.
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