Once the MMRCA process starts, there will be movement on FGFA. MMRCA is expected to start in a month or two anyway.
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
- Start date
- Status
Once the MMRCA process starts, there will be movement on FGFA. MMRCA is expected to start in a month or two anyway.
I think that this Tender is just for Show
We will keep Negotiating with BOTH France and Russia
And then Abruptly cancel this tender without any assigning any reason
There may not even be a tender. The IAF may directly opt for the GTG route via France.
Not so easy considering how your opposition have react and the election coming year just when the first rafale will arrived.
Defence expenditure for US, France and Germany were $611 billion, $56 billion and $41 billion for 2016. How exactly they are comparable??
Any such decision will happen after elections. Right now, they will only send out the RFI and generate interest in the program.
You need to look at the size of the revenue pool where the defence budget comes out of.
If you look at how much money the govts actually have, they are similar. The US Federal Budget is $3.5T. The combined central govt budget of France and Germany is $3.1T. So defence expenditure comes out of this pool.
In no time, France and Germany can practically match US defence spending. If you look up the revenues of all the large EU govts, you will notice that the EU's defence spending can easily double the US if necessary.
Don't let GDP figures fool you, the Europeans are really rich. Even though India equals France's GDP, the French govt is as much as 4-5 times richer than the Indian govt.
French do not want to equip Rafale with KV1 till they supply all aircraft with M88. KV1 equipped Rafale as part of MII is a fallacy and a Mirage. Its being peddled around as a bait. French will supply all Rafale with M88 and after that charge an astronomical sum for integrating KV1 to Rafale. They need to be shown their place and we shall do that. Let me see how they get more orders without delivering on KV1. Either they will get more Rafale orders or this Govt will fall in 2019. I will go public with everything about Rafale deal.
Mind you, Now we are getting MRTT from second hand A330s and soon even AWACs will be on second hand hand A330s. I wrote about it long long back on another forum. I raise these issues with RMO and that goes on record. Now they have to find a suitable answer to bypass my objections on any issue which I raise with them. These emails are open source and RMO just can't delete them and say that they never received them.
Mind you, French have no power to delay AMCA. if they do so, they will be exposed big time with their game plan and that game plan is not Bon Plan.
My info is that Russians are willing to offer I-30 engine with TOT if India opts for SU-57/35 or MIG-35s. AND that will be a huge boost for us as we will not need French or the Americans ever for any of our engine programs. FYI, The PD-14 engine is a conventional engine without geared fan or CMC like LEAP-1 and yet russians have closed the gap in SFC to less than 2%.
R
Interesting logic !!
Btw, when did I claim India is richer than France??
Ok. So you are saying suddenly French and German are going to divert 100s of billions of dollars (Around $500 billion to be precise) from their welfare funds to defence budget!!
Interesting logic !!
Btw, when did I claim India is richer than France??
they promised it last year june, not sure when it is going to be finalised.
It's visible now, they wanted 36 more F3R so that they can try equiping the next batch (36) with V1, since India did not promise on 36 more France did not confirm V1 development. India cannot ask 36 more before general election but France should not wait for general election and has to deliver V1 as they promised, all France can do is trust govt with future orders and deliver V1 this year or I hope you expose the deal. We can not remain fool all the time.
The best way to deal with that is to make KV1 part of the Rafale F4 program itself. So even France will become victim to their own politics.
The MRTT with second hand A330s is a good idea. But I doubt the AWACS will be second hand. We need to make major modifications to it to fit all the sensors, so it will be a large project in fact. Just like the ERJ 145 was.
I am talking about how the IAF wants the winner of the MMRCA to assist DRDO in developing new technologies for the AMCA. So we are talking long term, at least after 10 years.
The Type 30 is so far away from achieving IOC that we will have both KV1 and KV2 flying by then. This engine helps in the long term development. In the medium and short term, we will have to depend on whatever we are doing right now with the French.
But, after the French assistance, if we still need help developing new engines then our scientists should be shot.
Spending shifts gears when priorities change. I am not saying the French and Germans will increase their budgets to such high levels. I am saying they have the potential to do so. Basically, they can run programs as big as the Americans can.
That's why I said "France and Germany have as much money as the US. They can afford anything the US can."
I gave that as an example.
Repeatedly I had written that Kaveri engine is superior to M88 any day provided it reaches completion. Many guys here continued to post nonsense calling it a 54/90KN engine without realising that it was flat rated to ISA+25*C. No engine in the world has ever been flat rated to such high temperatures. The best civil engines are flat rated to only ISA+15*C.
The delay by France for KV1 is a clear manifestation of how seriously they take our friendship. I want GOI to even stop Nuke reactor deal with France till they deliver KV1. Once a cheat is a cheat forever. How can anyone trust such people.
The engine has already done over 50hrs of in air testing on the actual testbed with no problems so far. It will be fully certified by beginning of 2020. Even the tech from it can flow into Kaveri which will be far superior to French tech as French have yet to develop an engine with such power.
French helped Russia with SAM engine fitted in Sukhoi Superjet and Russians went forward and defeated French tech when they designed PD-14.
I would expect the government to order at least another 36 Rafale after 2019 election.
The problem with the Type 30 is the technology is going to HAL, not GTRE. We will obviously benefit from the production technology transferred, but I doubt it's going to help GTRE develop new engines.
Plus, absorbing engine ToT will take many years, as much as a decade.
They can't and they don't have the potential to do that either. France is struggling hard to bring down their fiscal deficit to below 3%.
I would urge you to go though the debt levels, fiscal deficit and budget details of both countries. That would help!!
Money is not an issue for European Countries? Brexit created a mess for the UK
also, you are under estimatng the growing political influence of India. Partnering India will keep any other country hooked to a power center to balance China. the only country other than USA to have some strength to stop China (in terms of sheer numbers and will) is India at this point (in my opinion)
So, we can absorb French tech within 18 months but need a decade to absorb russian tech when we have been making their engines for over three decades.
BTW, GOI can decide as to who will absorb the tech coming thru OFFSETS. They don't have to nominate HAL for it. They can easily give it to GTRE.
Some Technologies can be had Neither for Love or Nor for Money
For example US will not share the Best of its F 35 technologies even with UK
And US and UK share a Blood relation
thankfully, our greatest adversary does not need the us to have F-35 level technology a Rafale level would do while we work on catching up the technologies.
- Status