IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

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The enlightened said:
@Desi Lover nice to see someone here who inhabits the real world. I've seen some progress with @randomradio (especially from the LSA days) but he has a long and treacherous path ahead.
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Yes, at first I thought that people here have real knowledge and information in defense sector. Now I have a feeling that most here are very excited and very optimistic young people who think that we can do anything. Thing is, there are boundaries, limitations and rules. We cant do everything. We cant buy 100s and 1000s of new fighter jets half of them developed completely in india and other half with TOT of critical tech. Truth is we have to think 100 times about adding 36 more Rafales, we have to think we should go for M88 or GeF 414s, Single or Twin engine etc etc etc.. We dont know if AMCA will ever fructify or not with the current education and research systems in the country. All this info leak about whats going on inside does not reflect even a bit on the head lines.

I am sure that some people are producing false info here and the rest are analyzing those info, adding their own perspective without knowing whats actually happening on ground where is the reality is completely disconnected from the discussions happening here.

Focusing on education and research will actually help our defense more than these defense threads.
 
Desi Lover said:
Yes, at first I thought that people here have real knowledge and information in defense sector. Now I have a feeling that most here are very excited and very optimistic young people who think that we can do anything. Thing is, there are boundaries, limitations and rules. We cant do everything. We cant buy 100s and 1000s of new fighter jets half of them developed completely in india and other half with TOT of critical tech. Truth is we have to think 100 times about adding 36 more Rafales, we have to think we should go for M88 or GeF 414s, Single or Twin engine etc etc etc.. We dont know if AMCA will ever fructify or not with the current education and research systems in the country. All this info leak about whats going on inside does not reflect even a bit on the head lines.

I am sure that some people are producing false info here and the rest are analyzing those info, adding their own perspective without knowing whats actually happening on ground where is the reality is completely disconnected from the discussions happening here.

Focusing on education and research will actually help our defense more than these defense threads.
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Can you suggest few points to improve our education system?
 
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Bali78 said:
Can you suggest few points to improve our education system?
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Focus of education should be on using the information for coming up with something that is usable in real life/applying the info in real life. Right now what we study remains in the notebooks and head. Not used in real. This should start from class 1 itself to grow our minds in a way that we always think of application of info and not getting marks. Cant think of any example right now, probably because I'v never studied that way.

Secondly, focus should be more in research. Incentives should be given for coming up with something new and useful. More money into research.

Our foundation is not strong and we are thinking of reaching the top. Not happening.
 
Yes Indians are doing very well abroad. But what they are doing are practicing the stuff they learned and not making something new. Just do the same old stuff that westerners have taught us. We have a lot of managers and CEOs abroad but very few owners/founders.
 
Desi Lover said:
Focus of education should be on using the information for coming up with something that is usable in real life/applying the info in real life. Right now what we study remains in the notebooks and head. Not used in real. This should start from class 1 itself to grow our minds in a way that we always think of application of info and not getting marks. Cant think of any example right now, probably because I'v never studied that way.

Secondly, focus should be more in research. Incentives should be given for coming up with something new and useful. More money into research.
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Hmm..You mentioned earlier that education is great in New Zealand, yet cannot suggest few points how to improve Indian education system!!

I am curious to know if New Zealand education system is so effective as you claim(I have no idea about that New Zealand's education system), what exactly thousands of Indian engineers doing there? They could not train their own people??
 
Ok, I'll give an example on what I am studying right now. I am doing bachelors in health and safety. In the study material, some basic concepts are and theories are given and an assignment is given. This assignment involves a work place scenario and requires me to do a proper 2500 word report on how to assess, categorize, organize, control and monitor risks in this scenario. To do this, you have to do a lot of research and possibly visit a real workplace to understand properly. It is forcing me to think how to apply the knowledge in this scenario rather than mugging it up.Here, they are emphasizing on using the theory in real scenarios. This study style is applied from schooling and above.

I never came across such study style in India when I was doing bachelors let alone school or college. And I am not saying NZ education style is the best...What I'm saying is western education style is what we should implement. This will help us develop a mind focused on application of information and not just merely reproducing it.
 
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Bali78 said:
I would suggest to read a bit about what Indians are doing around the world. Read this article .

How Indians Defied Gravity and Achieved Success in Silicon Valley
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Right. How many such examples Indians have vs westerners?

We dont learn to apply = no innovation = no successful Kaveri. Simple

Yes, we have made some other weapons from scratch. Great.. We have some nice innovators. But we dont have many of them, hence we dont see the results every where.
 
Desi Lover said:
Ok, I'll give an example on what I am studying right now. I am doing bachelors in health and safety. In the study material, some basic concepts are and theories are given and an assignment is given. This assignment involves a work place scenario and requires me to do a proper 2500 word report on how to assess, categorize, organize, control and monitor risks. To do this, you have to do a lot of research and possibly visit a real workplace to understand properly. Here, they are emphasizing on using of theory in real scenarios. The same study style is applied since schooling.

I never came across such study style in India when I was doing bachelors let alone school or college. And I am not saying NZ education style is the best...What I'm saying is western education style is what we should implement. This will help us develop a mind focused on application of information and not just merely reproducing it.
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Good. I did my schooling, under grad and masters in India. I never remember any of my teachers/profs suggesting me to just mug up and score!! Whenever I asked them to clarify my doubts, they tried their level best. So why to blame the system??

Had Indian education been so bad, Silicon Valley would not have been full of Indian engineers!!
 
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Desi Lover said:
Right. How many such examples Indians have vs westerners?

We dont learn to apply = no innovation = no successful Kaveri. Simple

Yes, we have made some other weapons from scratch. Great.. We have some nice innovators. But we dont have many of them, hence we dont see the results every where.
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Did you read the article carefully? If you had read, then you would have got your answer!!

And speak for yourself. There are millions of Indians doing fantastic job all around the world.
 
Why would
Bali78 said:
Did you read the article carefully? If you had read, then you would have got your answer!!

And speak for yourself. There are millions of Indians doing fantastic job all around the world.
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Unfortunately, thats one of the very few examples we always boast about.

And if we dont accept our weakness, we will never get better.

Teachers clarified my doubts too in India but hardly anyone taught use to use the knowledge in real life. I was a cbse student.
 
Desi Lover said:
Yes, at first I thought that people here have real knowledge and information in defense sector. Now I have a feeling that most here are very excited and very optimistic young people who think that we can do anything. Thing is, there are boundaries, limitations and rules. We cant do everything. We cant buy 100s and 1000s of new fighter jets half of them developed completely in india and other half with TOT of critical tech. Truth is we have to think 100 times about adding 36 more Rafales, we have to think we should go for M88 or GeF 414s, Single or Twin engine etc etc etc.. We dont know if AMCA will ever fructify or not with the current education and research systems in the country. All this info leak about whats going on inside does not reflect even a bit on the head lines.

I am sure that some people are producing false info here and the rest are analyzing those info, adding their own perspective without knowing whats actually happening on ground where is the reality is completely disconnected from the discussions happening here.
Click to expand...

We are developing a TSTO space shuttle and a SSTO military spacecraft right now. You forget that we have even reached Mars, an accomplishment worthy of being published in school history books.

We don't need to think a 100 times before adding another 36 aircraft, that's easy peasy, only the spending priority has to change. Right now, the political environment is not conducive for it. But it can be done easily after the May 2019 elections.

Focusing on education and research will actually help our defense more than these defense threads.
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These defence threads do not help our military activities in any form. It's funny you think that. This is only a forum to discuss current events.
 
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randomradio said:
I'm afraid you don't know anything about the IAF.
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I bow to thee superior knowledge

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18e13baa5614dc34246dcb0944418ead.png

Oh but wait, there is more
39d0ccc65293afe6c1cc0c65d49c3f33.png
 
The enlightened said:
I bow to thee superior knowledge

087763ea0f0a04b09ab8ca79b3246090.png


18e13baa5614dc34246dcb0944418ead.png

Oh but wait, there is more
39d0ccc65293afe6c1cc0c65d49c3f33.png
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Both numbers are real and will happen because those are the requirements and were spelt out by the IAF themselves.

India needs 200-250 more Rafale fighters, 36 not enough: IAF chief Arup Raha
“But we have just ordered 36 aircraft and we require more aircraft in this middle weight category to give entire spectrum of capability,” he said, adding that a void has been created in the past because of obsolescence and many of the squadrons will be past their use-by date. “We have already used them for four decades plus. It is time to retire them and get new aircraft… Over the next 10 years, we must have 200-250 aircraft. It has to be balanced out. In the heavy weight spectrum, we have enough. But in the medium weight category, we need to have more. Yes, about 200 will be very good,” he said.

The IAF wants a GTG deal for medium aircraft, 100+ in the initial tranche and will climb to 200 easily. Again, because that's the requirement. What's more interesting, my quote for 200 Rafale was in Feb 2016 while ACM Arup Raha echoed the same in Dec 2016. Wonder what I know when even the ACM says the same thing.

Gripen collapsed into Tejas, so Tejas numbers have climbed from 120+ to 320+.

As for FGFA, it's common sense that any typical large air force's AS numbers are 1/3rd of the squadron strength at the very minimum, that's why MKI is at 270. And that's why FGFA will also climb to those numbers. You forget that the FGFA procurement process itself is a 30-year process.

Basically all my numbers are right. Requirements are gospel.
 
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