IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
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Indian Airpower Will See ‘Impressive’ Improvements In the Years Ahead
Indian Airpower Will See ‘Impressive’ Improvements In the Years Ahead
Indian Airpower Will See ‘Impressive’ Improvements In the Years Ahead
Airbase in Gujarat makes sense but a defense manufacturing unit in Gujarat is criminal.
Few updates
LCA
LCA
- MOD has not said one thing openly that LCA Mk2 needs subsystem and parts access from an MII program. The real indigenous program development time cycle in spite of all positive news (for IPO) is critically looked by old HAL chiefs themselves.
- According to many in MOD, to support a Pubic entity a lot of positive soundbites had been made, but rather than only talking , HAL needs to deliver as well.
- MK1 as per files is still open as lockin for most of the new changes is not done at all.
- Mk2 file mentions an explicit dependency on a MII program for a quicker plan or being ready or else a longer time schedule if its going alone.
- Its here as well where a Rafale MII is strictly mentioned and an ecosystem of DRAL and a total of close to 100+ SME ecosystem of India which are part of MII program to naturally cater to the LCA ecosystem.
- IN had focussed on minaturisation of N reactors for different classes of ships usage both surface and underwater.
- The approach seems to be with a mindset of a new policy where navy in future wishes to have Super Carriers, Carriers, Mini Carriers, 10-12 Tonne Missile and SAM complex laden Battle cruisers types etc. Its sof course studying perhaps for a new plan of naval expansion in shipbuilding.
- BARC otoh wishes to not go towards minaturisation.
- BARC has successfully come out with research supportings for dual core and expected to come out in future a multicore design.
- This bascially implies BARC can up the speed quicker for any new naval requirement in terms of tonnage for surface and underwater fleet much quicker than anticipated from before.
- Some of the supporting entities wishes to keep it exclusively to Russian consulting, but DRDO has categorically said french consulting is expeceted as part of a agreement.
- Interesting time ahead for Navy if things go as per plans. We might see new classes of long endurance ship with heavy stuff coming out of drawing boards within next decade (may be 2027) and yards getting ready for building such capital ships.
- MOD had again asked IAF and IN to decide who wants jets prioritised first for a G2G order.
- IAF had again contested that only giving G2G order will not suffice and is supported by IN on this.
- IAF says MII is integral for other jets in IAF's horizon of acquisition ( LCA, Rafale F4.2/NG, AMCA) and without this, the opex portion will suffer with a LCC cost coming out higher owing to the failure of securing the localisation program.
- IN supported this by saying an existing air wing is already suffering so also helicopter fleet due to such challenges caused by decisions of the past.
- MOD had remained mum but said that a team is being dispatched to study how planes are being built from CKD, SKD , upto 51% and up to 75% localisation and will submit the report on this. Once its done, we will formulate an agreement of manhours and all the operational processes to ensure all this is part of the performance and financial covenants for the MII program
- MOD also clarified that this exercise is needed to ensure any future MII program also follows a similar path and no program gets delayed by unknown reasons.
- In the meeting, DRDO and ADA representative were also there. They were informed that joint recommendation of IAF, DRDO and ADA to MOD for securing access to particular tech from French side is approved and agreed by Prez Macron during his visit. With Prz Macron approval, Eric Trappier of Dassault also agreed readily to allow access and insight on quite a few game-changing systems.
- Systems beyond scope of this forum but is said to be the ones which team Dassault is researching and which puts the Rafale systems to be at par with an evolved version of older hardware of F22 and a new generation F35.
- Interesting to note that such systems potentially will nullify almost all ADs for at least 2 decades. That is a potential crown jewel which is being talked about.
Seems like MOD is delaying LCA mk1a for no reasons at all. IAF is still flying decades old mig-21s which are in a urgent need of replacement. Are they(PMO/MOD) still rooting for f-16s in IAF?
India, Russia close to deal for S-400 air defence systems
The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the parliamentary panel on defence that the procurement of the S-400 air defence systems developed by Russia is imperative to tackle possible threats from China and Pakistan.
India and Russia are in the final stages of negotiations to purchase S-400 air defence systems two years after their initial deal on the matter. A commercial contract is expected to be signed soon and could happen on Nirmala Sitharaman's maiden trip to Moscow as defence minister in the first week of April, according to persons with knowledge of the matter.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the parliamentary panel on defence that the procurement of the S-400 air defence systems developed by Russia is imperative to tackle possible threats from China and Pakistan. The parliamentary panel, on its part, has recommended that funds for this be made available during the year as per the IAF demand.
India and Russia have been working on the final commercial contract since October 2016, when the two sides concluded an intergovernmental agreement for the procurement of five S-400 systems, 200 Kamov helicopters, some of which will be bought and the rest made in India, and four stealth frigates. During Arun Jaitley’s visit to Moscow last year as defence minister the two sides expedited the process of concluding contracts for these. Work on the stealth frigates have started.
The S-400 systems are capable of intercepting and destroying airborne threats at a distance of up to 250 miles and can simultaneously engage up to six targets. Each S-400 comprises tracking and search radar systems, eight launchers, 112 guided missiles, and command and support vehicles.
China was the first global customer of the S-400, said to be the world's most potent air defence system. It was delivered to China last year. Russia is also expected to begin implementing the contract on delivery of S-400 systems to Turkey in early 2020.
Meanwhile, apart from the attempt to conclude the impending S-400 air defence system deal, Sitharaman is also expecting to move forward discussions on proposed bilateral collaboration on the development of a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA). There will also be talks on spare parts, maintenance, upgradation and ammunition for Russian-made defence systems. She will also participate in the Moscow international security conference.
The two sides are also focusing on other areas to expand ties. Prime Minister Narendra Modi was one of the first leaders to congratulate President Vladimir Putin on his re-election. At the same time, three Russian ministers—handling economic development, transportation and agriculture--were in Delhi meeting their counterparts.
The two countries are currently in negotiations for Moscow’s assistance on a high-speed railway project between Nagpur and Secunderabad, besides Russian technology for river transportation utilising India’s vast river network. These issues were discussed when Russian Transport Ministers met his counterparts here. River transport is a cheaper mode of connectivity than road. Yet another emerging area of cooperation is IT and IT solutions. Nasscom signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Russian counterpart Russoft last Monday for projects in India and third countries.
India and Russia are eyeing third-country collaboration in various sectors in Africa and Asean in areas ranging from technological solutions to development projects and harnessing natural resources.
Meanwhile, in a bid to boost bilateral trade to $30 billion by 2025, Russia has asked Indian startups to play the role of catalysts to bring large Indian companies and Russian investors closer. The two governments have agreed to give high priority to the removal of obstacles to trade in order to improve upon the 21.5% growth in two-way trade recorded last year, according to Russia's deputy minister for economic development Alexey Gruzdev, who also visited Delhi earlier this week.
India has pointed out that connectivity, the engagement between Russian regions and states, collaboration in the energy sector (hydrocarbon and nuclear), high-tech cooperation besides defence and security are focus areas for future collaboration.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the parliamentary panel on defence that the procurement of the S-400 air defence systems developed by Russia is imperative to tackle possible threats from China and Pakistan.
India and Russia are in the final stages of negotiations to purchase S-400 air defence systems two years after their initial deal on the matter. A commercial contract is expected to be signed soon and could happen on Nirmala Sitharaman's maiden trip to Moscow as defence minister in the first week of April, according to persons with knowledge of the matter.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the parliamentary panel on defence that the procurement of the S-400 air defence systems developed by Russia is imperative to tackle possible threats from China and Pakistan. The parliamentary panel, on its part, has recommended that funds for this be made available during the year as per the IAF demand.
India and Russia have been working on the final commercial contract since October 2016, when the two sides concluded an intergovernmental agreement for the procurement of five S-400 systems, 200 Kamov helicopters, some of which will be bought and the rest made in India, and four stealth frigates. During Arun Jaitley’s visit to Moscow last year as defence minister the two sides expedited the process of concluding contracts for these. Work on the stealth frigates have started.
The S-400 systems are capable of intercepting and destroying airborne threats at a distance of up to 250 miles and can simultaneously engage up to six targets. Each S-400 comprises tracking and search radar systems, eight launchers, 112 guided missiles, and command and support vehicles.
China was the first global customer of the S-400, said to be the world's most potent air defence system. It was delivered to China last year. Russia is also expected to begin implementing the contract on delivery of S-400 systems to Turkey in early 2020.
Meanwhile, apart from the attempt to conclude the impending S-400 air defence system deal, Sitharaman is also expecting to move forward discussions on proposed bilateral collaboration on the development of a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA). There will also be talks on spare parts, maintenance, upgradation and ammunition for Russian-made defence systems. She will also participate in the Moscow international security conference.
The two sides are also focusing on other areas to expand ties. Prime Minister Narendra Modi was one of the first leaders to congratulate President Vladimir Putin on his re-election. At the same time, three Russian ministers—handling economic development, transportation and agriculture--were in Delhi meeting their counterparts.
The two countries are currently in negotiations for Moscow’s assistance on a high-speed railway project between Nagpur and Secunderabad, besides Russian technology for river transportation utilising India’s vast river network. These issues were discussed when Russian Transport Ministers met his counterparts here. River transport is a cheaper mode of connectivity than road. Yet another emerging area of cooperation is IT and IT solutions. Nasscom signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Russian counterpart Russoft last Monday for projects in India and third countries.
India and Russia are eyeing third-country collaboration in various sectors in Africa and Asean in areas ranging from technological solutions to development projects and harnessing natural resources.
Meanwhile, in a bid to boost bilateral trade to $30 billion by 2025, Russia has asked Indian startups to play the role of catalysts to bring large Indian companies and Russian investors closer. The two governments have agreed to give high priority to the removal of obstacles to trade in order to improve upon the 21.5% growth in two-way trade recorded last year, according to Russia's deputy minister for economic development Alexey Gruzdev, who also visited Delhi earlier this week.
India has pointed out that connectivity, the engagement between Russian regions and states, collaboration in the energy sector (hydrocarbon and nuclear), high-tech cooperation besides defence and security are focus areas for future collaboration.
Impressed with Navy's story, they are thinking some long term plans and there planning looks much more ambitious than IAF & IA, combined. I hope they get major chunk of the defense budget after 2020 once the geo-politics of the region changes completely.
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It's good to see that IN is supporting IAF on Rafale MII program. 108+57=165 looks good number to be produced in India, but the question remains how much our FM has got for armed forces. This deal will cost more than 30 $ billion and don't forget IA is also there in race for modernization fund.
Thats the last inference I would make from Ashish's post.
I do not agree with most of your posts on this topic. Situation is very different from what you have posted. It seems that you have access to only IAF and not what is happening in IN.
Pathetic performance by Modi government with regards to both Rafale and S-400 deals. The government took years even after every thing was ready to close the deals in the name of negotiations.
These fools (or intentional criminals?) do not understand that time itself has value.
Now India would be standing in queue behind China, Algeria, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia for S-400s just like India is waiting in the queue behind Egypt and Qatar for Rafales when in both of these deals India was the most preferred partner of the selling countries and should have been the first customer.
Why is Modi government compromising India's national security?
There was news that Defence budget is so small that services are running short of money even to pay for the deals that have already been signed and here we are talking about new deals?
It seems to me that he did have access to IN informations, if not how to explain his ability to expose the naval expansion plan?
Talk about Army and Air Force, as far as Navy is concerned they don't have much problem with their expansion or modernization plan. It's the services(mostly Army) to be blamed mostly for their financial situation, they are too 'inefficient'. They have one of the worst financial management system where they used to return on average 5,000 Cr of allocated budget almost every year. So I won't blame any of the govt for that.
Irrespective of govt, Army & AF has always asked(cried) for more funds from center, but it is now time that both these branches needs to be trimmed down to curb their ever increasing revenue expenditure. They'll anyway will be trimmed down within a decade as Navy will play more dominant role in oceans rather than Army on land.
Services are part of Mod/GoI and are not private entities. The buck stops at Modi's desk.
I can't wait to see India in 2030. Should be an economic powerhouse. I hope by then they streamline and get rid of the crippling bureaucracy that plagues defense procurement.
It all depends on what kind of governments we get in Delhi. Don't underestimate our bureaucracy
. Only a minister with hands on knowledge can handle them. Otherwise they can very comfortably take these politicians for a ride. Unless successive central governments really screws up like UPA, India will be an economic power house by 2030. Our tax collection will be in the range of 90-100 lakh crores ( $1.1 - 1.25 trillion) and GDP will be in the range of $6.5 - $7.5 trillion.
It all depends on what kind of governments we get in Delhi. Don't underestimate our bureaucracy
Unless successive central governments really screws up like UPA, India will be an economic power house by 2030. Our tax collection will be in the range of 90-100 lakh crores ( $1.1 - 1.25 trillion) and GDP will be in the range of $6.5 - $7.5 trillion.
Bow to the sage who can look so far into the future !!
Hi post something constructive .. If you are knowledgable ..
Why open a account to troll ?
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