IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bow to the sage who can look so far into the future !!
He's going by the current performance of the Indian economy . Look up the performance of the Indian economy from say 2005 to plot it's trajectory and see why he's stated what he did . In the absence of an earth shattering event or wars , it can be safe to assume that we'd be closer to his guesstimate.

Why don't you substantiate your objections with facts and figures?
 
I can't wait to see India in 2030. Should be an economic powerhouse. I hope by then they streamline and get rid of the crippling bureaucracy that plagues defense procurement.
That's what we always think (in the old fora world - circa 2005-08, people thought India would have FGFA, LCA MK-2, MMRCA flying with Indian roundels by 2015) but by the time we arrive at that future, it turns out that we have slipped further behind the world. When the current government is replaced next year by the super coalition of the most greedy, corrupt and incompetent thugs in the country, who shall loot the country dry for the next two terms, expect that 2030 to arrive no sooner than 2040.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Paro
I can't wait to see India in 2030. Should be an economic powerhouse. I hope by then they streamline and get rid of the crippling bureaucracy that plagues defense procurement.

We need military educated to take the MoD seat. And we need a Joint Chiefs so procurement can be streamlined.

If these two things happen, the bureaucracy can't do anything.
 
Rafale deal makes no mention of Reliance Defence: Sitharaman – Indian Defence Research Wing

The last line says ''Sitharaman has also said that 126 Rafale jets will be manufactured in India under future deals.''

Any idea if this is a credible article?
 
You are partly right, but majorly wrong
MoD does not mean just purchasing weapons, but also balancing the budget for the three services this includes salaries, pensions etc.
One easy way to purchase more planes is just cancel pensions.. we can pay for any plane outright, But that does not work

Flying a plane, Ensuring maintenance of supply chain, and ensuring proper procurement and the supplies and paying salaries etc are very much different jobs, A combat guy cannot do that, they are not educated for it A classic example, we purchased Su-30 MKI and we had lack of spares, It took a CIVILIAN DM Parrikar to identify the problem and solve it, Why was the entire "professional" IAF not able to manage it? Maybe they are too stupid to understand it? Maybe they are. but giving benefit to them I might say that they are not trained or educated for this. They are trained to fight, but spare management and supply management is not their forte, but Parrikar being an Administrator, sees the situation much different than IAF. Where IAF saw that as problems of Su-30 MKI, Parrikar rightly identified the problem being of the ordering process and supply chain and corrected it, and we are now reaping the benefits.

So, having a military guy is good if taking military decision, but many times its important to create the right environment for getting the diplomatic situation in our favour so that when we conduct the operation, we are justified in doing so and without any diplomatic outcry (talk of Surgical strike) So it needs to have both Military and diplomatic components . It is not about hitting the enemy, but hitting in such a way that everyone blames them, not us and we are justified for hitting them



We need military educated to take the MoD seat. And we need a Joint Chiefs so procurement can be streamlined.

If these two things happen, the bureaucracy can't do anything.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Winchester
A senior Navy officer who took a sortie in Rafale was shown low altitude flight mode and how Rafale M were able to do inbound in such mission roles carrying a "very heavy" package. The drop was shown in combat environment with all coastal radars and detection systems switched on in a live situation. The performance of the mission made the Navy officer gave the best possible feedback for Rafales.

100 feet mach 0.85/.9 fully loaded (mission heavy load) in autofollow mode (can be significantly lower in manual mode if weather is fair)
 
@Hellfire, we have had rough between us earlier also. For me uniform is earned and respected and those who make a mockery of this uniform need to be exposed. For you Services seems to be holy cow which can't go wrong ever. Stop throwing these numbers of heights on me. A pilot flying off an aircraft from short fields is a pilot blessed with good skills and that does not make him an intelligent well read pilot. The same pilots can't understand the automation of an A-320.
My experience of flying is very different and includes not just VSTOL/conventional fixed wing fighter and transport aircraft but also helicopters. I hope ypu know that Harrier pilots have to first learn to fly a helicopter.

As said Pete Collins about test pilots, "you can teach a monkey how to fly, but you cannot teach him how to answer questions about flight" (ETPS motto)
 
  • Like
Reactions: vstol Jockey
It may happen sooner than you expect... Btw VSTOL remember i told you not to order before india can get F4 about 1.5/2 years ago?
Yes. But I also told you that final order will comprise some more rafale from French line and after that only they will be made in India. I still maintain my figure of 80 aircraft from French line. It may be that we might end up with another 24 in direct fly away and rest to be built from the kits supplied from france. The total will then be about 80/90 aircraft and after that we will have Rafale from scratch from Indian line.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aashish
Yes. But I also told you that final order will comprise some more rafale from French line and after that only they will be made in India. I still maintain my figure of 80 aircraft from French line. It may be that we might end up with another 24 in direct fly away and rest to be built from the kits supplied from france. The total will then be about 80/90 aircraft and after that we will have Rafale from scratch from Indian line.

DRAL plans on assembling the next order of 36 in India itself.
 
I just don't get the point in MMRCA part 2. More delays, while you haven't actually changed anything given it's the exact same planes competing. Rafale has a bigger edge this time.
 
DRAL plans on assembling the next order of 36 in India itself.
Not possible. French will never give up this money cow till they have milked it to their satisfaction. may be we will have 54 from French line and rest only assembled in DRAL with kits supplied from France. But Indian MII is not possible before 80/90 aircraft number.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aashish
I just don't get the point in MMRCA part 2. More delays, while you haven't actually changed anything given it's the exact same planes competing. Rafale has a bigger edge this time.

The idea is to make the Rafales cheaper than it is through GTG. Plus we have to follow a tender process since there are many aircraft of equivalent capability.

The Swiss will be doing the same pretty soon.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Angel Eyes
Not possible. French will never give up this money cow till they have milked it to their satisfaction. may be we will have 54 from French line and rest only assembled in DRAL with kits supplied from France. But Indian MII is not possible before 80/90 aircraft number.

The choice is between guaranteeing Rafale MII with 200+ jets or just get stuck with an order of 72 jets and lose the tender to another jet. If an assembly line is opened up in India through GTG, then their tender bid will reduce a lot more than it should be. It will make the navy offer considerably cheaper and more fruitful with an Indian assembly compared to the other competitors.

We are talking about 93 jets after all. 36 for the IAF and 57 for the IN.

The Swedes have also offered to set up a final assembly line in Brazil for just an order of 36 jets. The Japanese F-35 line is also built on only an order of 42 jets, with 38 to be assembled in Japan. So even without the navy orders, DRAL can justify an assembly line in India with just 36 jets.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.