Israel-Hamas Conflict: Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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structural strength integrity & strength of staircase is stronger than some our bridges !
Israel makes Way/Steps to 72 Hoors for Hamas terrorists......
The problem here being superpowers and world-annihilating weapons were involved.
I mean, look at the choices: Sign Minsk, mostly favoring Ukraine, or get conquered. The problem is both Ukraine and the West decided to ignore the conquer part, probably assumed the Russians were bluffing, at least the Europeans did. In fact the Europeans were in total denial until D-day.
Anyway, your analogy is a bit mixed up. You are comparing Croatia (Ukraine) vs RSK (Donbas), when in reality the situation is Yugoslavia (Ukraine) vs Croatia (Donbas). And when we bring in a third power, the West (Russia) was interested in breaking up Yugoslavia (Ukraine) and that worked in Croatia's (Donbas' ) favor.
Minsk agreement is much more similar to the Vance plan than Z-4.
Kind of narrows it down to one likely culprit.
us.yahoo.com
Initial US intelligence suggests Iran was surprised by the Hamas attack on Israel
The United States has collected specific intelligence that suggests senior Iranian government officials were caught by surprise by Saturday’s bloody attack on Israel by Hamas, according to multiple sources familiar with the intelligence.
How did losing Crimea and the Donbas favour Ukraine?
The fact is, Russia could have kept Crimea without losing any troops or money. Now it can't.
Accepting Minsk however meant assuming that Putin would just stop there; that is, that signing Minsk would prevent later attack.
There was no guarantee of that.
Israel however will need weapons for itself, so that is not a given.
You are making the same mistake the Europeans did. At least they have come to that realization, you have not. The choice was between Ukraine losing Crimea and Donbas in exchange for survival and entry into the EU, and annihilation.
Let me break it down so even you get it.
Russia basically said:
1. Crimea is ours.
2. Donbas remains yours, but autonomous.
3. All other Russian regions like Kharkiv, Odessa etc remain yours as usual.
4. You can join the EU, but not NATO.
5. You don't agree to the above, then we will take away Kiev and all other Russian regions by force.
Ukrainian response:
Europe:
(externally) (internally)US:
World:
After nearly 2 years of war.
Ukraine:
Europe:
US:
Russia:
World:
That's the gist of it.
Putin had no interest in war, his military was insufficiently equipped, proven by how much of a clusterfvk the war has been. Most of Russia's security spending was towards intelligence, propaganda and nukes. The elites in Russia have such comfortable lives that they had no intention of upsetting the status quo.
Had Minsk been signed, we would have seen a rapid militarization of Ukraine, while the Russians would have received the guarantee of Ukraine's neutrality, thereby creating an official buffer state between the West and Russia. This alone worked in Russia's favor. Something that the Russians wanted even before the coup in 2014.
The Kharkiv Pact in 2010 also shows the Russians were not interested in physically controlling Ukraine. The pact allowed Russia to continue the Sevastopol lease until 2042.
What we know about Iran's access to the $6B from a U.S. prisoner swap
The U.S. has chosen not to block the $6 billion it promised Iran after a prisoner swap this year, despite politicians’ calls to do so after Hamas’ attack on Israel.
So what, the attack was clearly instigated by Russia. If they have to deal with violence anyway, they have nothing to lose.
Let me break it down for you, it wasn't a good deal for Ukraine and what's resulted isn't a good deal for Russia either. Keeping Crimea alone without any lose of life or excess sanctions would have been a better move for Russia. Now almost 300k Russians are dead, they're under heavy sanctions, a million Russians have left, a million more are injured, a ruble is barely worth a cent, they're in a war they can't end, and they can't use Sevastopol now anyway. That's hardly something for them to laugh about.You are making the same mistake the Europeans did. At least they have come to that realization, you have not. The choice was between Ukraine losing Crimea and Donbas in exchange for survival and entry into the EU, and annihilation.
Let me break it down so even you get it.
Russia basically said:
1. Crimea is ours.
2. Donbas remains yours, but autonomous.
3. All other Russian regions like Kharkiv, Odessa etc remain yours as usual.
4. You can join the EU, but not NATO.
5. You don't agree to the above, then we will take away Kiev and all other Russian regions by force.
Ukrainian response:
Europe:
US:
World:
After nearly 2 years of war.
Ukraine:
Europe:
US:
Russia:
World:
That's the gist of it.
4. The whole war was about stopping Ukraine joining the EU, NATO had nothing to do with it. Finland joined NATO, and yet Russia has barely any troops on that border. The whole, "I'm worried about NATO crap is BS. Ukraine joining the EU would have reduced Russia's ever diminishing economic sphere - a sphere that offers nothing but continued poverty to its participants.
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Putin was never serious about Minsk either, he was continually breaking the ceasefire, his only goal was to create a response large enough to justify a full-on invasion. He tried his full-on invasion of Ukraine, that failed, then he attempted his Novorossiya plan that failed, then he attempted a minimal land bridge to Transnistria, that failed, then came the 4 region plans, that failed at Kherson. And now he's haemorrhaging troops and cash just to cling on to a land bridge to a naval base that he can no longer use.
It has an abundance of nice drones and Russian airbases in Syria are also vulnerable.
2 years... Russia trying to cover their back. There's not going to be a swap, they're all going to die and the Hamas leader will need to be a hide and seek champion.
Finland's case is different, and they were just a paper deal away from joining NATO anyway. More importantly, they still plan on sticking to the treaty they signed with Russia. The region is also highly defensible, and any offensive from that region would result in very high casualties.
But Ukraine was a different story. It would become an existential threat due to the proximity to the heart of Russia. Ukraine can split Russia into 2. The Nazis lost 'cause they failed to do that. They were stopped at the border of modern day Ukraine, near Kursk. So imagine if the NATO start point was where the Nazis ended, at the cost of over 20 million Soviet lives. It would be like a bad joke.
So, no, even though they took losses, this war is better for them in the long term because they get millions of new very productive civilians from major cities and prime real estate that compensate for a bunch of dead villagers from rural Russia.
Then he woudn't have waited for 8 years. He had enough justification in 2015 itself, when Minsk failed.
Minsk also required Ukrainian troops to withdraw outside the borders of Donbas, which is why the agreement failed.
Anyway, this topic should be in a different thread. Back to Israel-Hamas.
Not really, it's right next to Murmansk and St.Petersburg. The Ukraine region is highly defensible too, they got Belarus for backup just above it, if they thought it wasn't defensible then they sure as hell wouldn't attacked it - that's the great paradox of your defensible argument. Another contradictory factor is that the land they've taken is the bit furthest away from the closest, direct line to Moscow. Your arguments make zero sense.
St. Petersburg is the 2nd largest city in Russia. The heart of Russia, i.e. Moscow is still a short throw from NE Ukraine, arguments not making sense again. You must not have heard about Stalingrad. The NATO start point could still be there because Russian holds no Ukrainian territory adjacent to Kursk. No logiic yet again, all fake arguments.
Those civilians will all fcking leave unless they seal the place up like North Korea. They wanted to join the EU in the first place remember. And that prime real estate is all flattened.
He waited 8 years to find workarounds for the inevitable sanctions that his invasion would invoke. This is documented fact.
Yeah, so he could invade a little further. Surely you must see the flaw in that logic. Putin's deals are worth nothing, he is a proven liar, thief and war criminal.
It's related. Thread should be renamed 'Russia sponsors terror group and gets thousands of civilians murdered to create a diversion'.