PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

NAVAL Su-57 is very much a possibility, the Russians have the time till their first aircraft carrier becomes ready to develop, Luckily for the Russians they have that time. Su-57 will be in production soon with their Item 30 engines, The designers then can focus on designs to strengthen the air frame and wheels , and then decide how they want the plane to be, Surely CATOBAR design would be the safest one, but would they be tempted to perhaps go (with the help of Yakolev bureau,) for V/STOL Su-57 (the same way as F-35B) surely they would have a big market for that, as then small countries like say Iran can have their own "carrier" and thus extending the range of their weapons. Let us say India wants to mount an attack on south africa, the options are,

a) Strike using land based Su-30 MKI which are refueled enroute.
b) Have an understanding with some african country near SA to allow our planes to Refuel and then go about our mission and head back to India
c) Have a carrier off the cost and use it to launch attacks

The first option is OK but that will mean the pilots flying very very long mission. Option 2 will undermine the secrecy of the mission, Option 3 becomes a very balanced option allowing us to project force.
I took South Africa because its a distant country, and as an example only,

Now the Russians have to get a safe design and so they would be going for CATOBAR design to ensure that the plane is ready for carrier, and then maybe they might look at option of VSTOL

It would be far worse if Russian carrier is ready and the plane nowhere near completion,


If you don't design a plane with a naval variant in mind, you're either going to have to get REALLY lucky with the design, or spend insane amounts of money to modify it and in all likely hood end up with an inferior product to a clean sheet design. Naval F-15 was considered for like a year before they said *censored* that.
 
All the PAK FA prototypes. Thanks to konstine from Pralay.

DYAj_SDVwAEeuYS.jpg:large
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pundrick
Indian Air Force not keen on stealth fighter with Russia

A multibillion dollar programme to develop and produce a stealth fighter with Russia appears to be in peril, with the Indian Air Force (IAF) against pursuing it as it believes that the platform lacks the desired stealth characteristics and is inferior to US-made F-35 and F-22 jets, said a senior IAF officer familiar with the project.
He clarified there were no plans to go for a US stealth fighter.
In the IAF’s assessment, the proposed Indo-Russian fifth generation fighter aircraft, or FGFA, comes with limited capabilities and design issues at an exorbitant price. “Whether the FGFA programme is on or off will be a political decision. The IAF doesn’t think it’s worth pursuing,” the person quoted above said.
The government is finding it hard to reconcile two different points of view on FGFA.
While the IAF wants the project to be abandoned, a high-powered panel appointed by defence ministry to examine different aspects of FGFA recommended in its report last year that India should go ahead with the scheme.
“We are spending more time to see what are the merits and demerits of both arguments. But yes, the FGFA is abhorrently expensive, so we are looking at what we are getting for our money,” said a top defence ministry official familiar with the project.
Air Marshal Simhakutty Varthaman (retd), who headed the ministry’s panel, refused comments on his report or the contrary IAF view on the stealth fighter. “I would like to leave it to the defence ministry,” he said.
India has been in discussions with Russia but has not signed a $4 billion research and development contract for FGFA.
“I was never enthused by it and I would go by what IAF has to say,” said Air Marshal Vinod Patni (retd), head of Centre for Air Power Studies and a former IAF vice chief.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: zinswinsin
No and No.

FGFA is just Flanker++. While F-35 is optimized for strike and will be better suited for that role than A2A, FGFA can do neither and still costs a bomb. AMCA should indeed replace it but that will only be if DRDO can get their head out of their *censored*.

You are following western reports about the FGFA. You need to stop following the west about anything to do with the east's military tech.

The FGFA is a VLO design.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ironhide
The FGFA is dead... $8.63 billion advanced fighter aircraft project with Russia put on ice
NSA Ajit Doval tells Russia that India is shelving the $8.63 billion proposal to co-develop the FGFA

By Ajai Shukla

Business Standard, 20th Apr 18

The proposal for India and Russia to jointly develop an advanced fighter – the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) -- has been formally buried.

Business Standard has learnt that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval conveyed the decision to a Russian ministerial delegation at a “Defence Acquisition Meeting” in end-February.

Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, who attended the meeting, asked the Russians to proceed alone with developing their fifth-generation fighter. They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.

New Delhi and Moscow have discussed the FGFA since 2007, when they agreed that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) would partner Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau (Sukhoi) in developing and manufacturing the fighter. In 2010, Sukhoi flew the fighter, called Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or “Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation” (PAK-FA). Seven prototypes are currently in flight-testing.

Russia said the PAK-FA meets its needs, but the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted a better fighter. So HAL and Sukhoi negotiated an $8.63 billion deal to improve the PAK-FA with the IAF’s requirements of stealth (near-invisibility to radar), super-cruise (supersonic cruising speed), networking (real-time digital links with other battlefield systems) and airborne radar with world-beating range. In all, the IAF demanded some 50 improvements to the PAK-FA, including 360-degree radar and more powerful engines.

Defence ministry sources who played a direct role in negotiations with Russia say much of this money was earmarked for Indian production facilities for manufacturing 127 FGFAs, and for India’s work share in developing advanced avionics for the fighter. It also included the cost of four PAK-FA prototypes for IAF test pilots to fly.

Now, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has backed away from the FGFA because it argues the PAK-FA – which Sukhoi has been test-flying since January 2010 – is not stealthy enough for a fifth-generation combat aircraft.

Aerospace analysts who support the PAK-FA reject this argument. They point out that the US Air Force F-22 Raptor, was built with an extraordinary degree of stealth, but that proved to be counterproductive, since it resulted in high maintenance and life-cycle costs. Burned by that emphasis on stealth alone, US designers de-emphasized stealth while building their latest fifth-generation fighter, the F-35 Lightning II. Instead, they focused on building its combat edge through better sensors, highly networked avionics and superior long-range weapons.

The cancellation of the FGFA project has far-reaching implications for the IAF, for which this was once its high-tech future fighter. United Progressive Alliance (UPA) defence minister AK Antony had ruled out buying the F-35 Lightning II, arguing that India would have the FGFA to meet its fifth-generation fighter needs.

Indian aerospace designers also cited the FGFA experience as essential learning for developing the indigenous fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) is pursuing.

Now, the FGFA’s burial sets the stage for the IAF to eventually acquire the F-35 Lightning II, which comes in air force as well as naval variants.

Indian military aviation, once overwhelmingly dependent upon Russian fighters, helicopters and transport aircraft, has steadily increased its purchases from America. On Tuesday, appearing before a US Senate panel for his confirmation hearings, Admiral Philip Davidson – nominated as the top US military commander in the Indo-Pacific, said the US should aspire to “break down” India’s historical dependence upon Russia.

The IAF has been split down the middle on the FGFA. Broadly, flying branch officers of the “French school”– whose careers have centred on Mirage and Jaguar fighters – have tended to oppose the FGFA. Meanwhile, officers from the “Russian school”, their careers grounded in the MiG and Sukhoi fleet, have supported the FGFA.

Opponents of the FGFA have even argued that the project would duplicate and hinder the indigenous AMCA project. However, last July, an experts group headed by Air Marshal (Retired) S Varthaman, set up to consider this question, ruled that there were no conflict lines between the FGFA and AMCA. It stated that the technological expertise that would be gained from working with Russian experts would benefit the AMCA project.

In co-developing the FGFA, HAL was expected to deploy its experience in working with composite materials, which were to replace many of the metal fabricated panels on the PAK-FA. India was also expected to participate in designing the 360-degree active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. In addition, the experience of flight-testing the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft would be refined by flight-testing a heavier, more complex fighter.

These challenges were expected to imbue Indian engineers with genuine design skills, of a far higher magnitude than the lessons learnt from licensed manufacture.


In addition, the FGFA’s foreclosure means the loss of $295 million that India sunk into its “preliminary design phase” between 2010-13.

Broadsword: The FGFA is dead... $8.63 billion advanced fighter aircraft project with Russia put on ice
 
Ladies and Gentlemen that's Ajai Shukla for you.

No concrete source, no official statement from authorities, just Propaganda Propaganda and Propaganda. He made up this statement and quoted Ajit Doval & Sanjay Mitra from February which nobody had any idea about.

So the USA lobby is in full swing. Russia will have to up their sleeves regarding this deal or the lobby is growing stronger everyday.
 
Can forum people finally admit the SU-57 isn't good? Like the Russia worshipping can end now.

Rafale is superior which is hilarious. Good job French.

FGFA will never happen.