Other than the fanboy stuff. You aren't going to get enough public info on the EW/EA. I would say the Israeli stuff is better. Guessing at radar range and missiles is probably the best you can do. The RCS of the Rafale should be better than the SU-30. The SU has a longer range radar. So I don't know if that balances out. BVR between rafale and SU? It might be the Rafale. Your Air Force would know, are they indicating?
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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The 32 Rafale to be upgraded in Ambala air base.
Customized For 'High-Altitude' Warfare Against China & Pakistan, Indian Air Force Receives More Rafale Fighters
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has received another batch of Rafale fighter jets after a gap of about nine months. The delivery comes at a time when Pakistan is said to be procuring J-10C fighter jets from China to counterbalance India’s Rafales. The latest delivery includes three of the remaining...
eurasiantimes.com
It's a bigger problem for f-15 because they have a gigantic RCS compared to the su 30. Boeing have done some stealth coating for the f-15EX or atleast claimed but majority of its problems are solved by a better integrated EW suite. Same needs to be done for the mki along with some stealth improvements. The j-16 also uses stealth coating.
Also we will have to go for both amca and su-57 for the interim and later maybe scaf/tempest later. Considering the Chinese might have 6 th gen planes by the next decade.
Correct me if I'm wrong- but in spite of the shortcomings of the Eagles you've listed , you were still very much in favour of inducting them into the IAF a year ago weren't you ?
Oh we're going in for a imported 5th Gen FA in the interim which in all probability would be the Su-57 before we induct the AMCA Mk-2 .
Since this is 2022 & we've had to put up with optimistic predictions all these years especially insanely optimistic ones this year ( & the year's only just begun ) besides getting multiple PoVs from the same person who gives us the scientist's PoV , the user department's PoV & the layperson's PoV , I've my own set of predictions to make . Purely from my PoV.
There's not going to be an MRFA tender. We'd either go in for 36 or 54 Rafales soon + the 26 MRCBF requirements if that's how the IN chooses & that's the end of that. The remainder of the MRFA numbers would be made good thru AMCA Mk-1.
There's a very slim chance we may go in for 18-36 Rafales towards the end of the decade if the AMCA Mk-1 doesn't stick to the T/L or turns out to be sub par or there's an emergency.
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You may not realise it, but you are privileged customers: for example, you ordered 36 Rafales like Qatar, but you got them before them, whereas you ordered them after.
I think we're going to lease you 5 Rafale M or maybe sell them to you second-hand like we did to Croatia, and we're also going to sell 26 + 36 Rafales that we'll produce in India from 2026 onwards in five years.
You will see in 2028 if your AMCA is likely to be ready in 2031 and if not, you will extend the production of Rafales.
Because it's still a very capable fighter. I wanted the f-15EX to replace our jaguars and used for CAS and Depth strike as well as a high altitude interceptor for Chinese bombers. The mki is a air superiority fighter that can be used as a brahmos carrier. With f-15EX we get access to American weaponry like JDAM, JASSM-ER, LRASM(could be integrated too and can be used for maritime strike just like the jaguar) and other American precision weaponry. I wanted that using that we could integrate American weaponry on the tejas. Tejas would become an instant export success if we integrated American weaponry to it like the amraam and JDAM. All south East Asian countries will become far more keener to purchase especially countries like Philippines,Malaysia and Indonesia as well as Vietnam. I didn't want the super-hornet even though it made more sense simply because in my opinion the f-15 outperforms the super hornet in terms of kinematics. The f-15 has a super EW capability than the super-hornet and maybe even the f-35. It's mission computer is faster and more modern than the f-35's. Plus it can be used as a bomber and an answer for Chinese h-6k's for the cheap. A cruise missile carrier.
But I also want the Rafale too to replace our Mirages and Mig 29's while the mk 2 becomes mig 23, mig 21 and jaguar replacement. Tejas mk 1 becomes trainer and replaces the mig 21 for interceptor roles too. The su-30 is a better fighter than the f-15 EX and using it for air superiority should be its primary role. I believe both have a space in the IAF.
The f-15 EX would be a much cheaper tu-22 M with better electronics and service life. And could do the job of the jaguar and mig 23 as well the role of a heavy strike bomber and high altitude interceptor and opening the gates for integrating American tech on indian hardware. The f-35 on the other hand would only make sense for our navy and not our airforce.
The pakistani air force is still not a threat and mki's can handle them easily. But the mki's will experience huge problems against j-10BSH,j-16 and j-20's. Rest of PLAAF can be handled. What the super Sukhoi upgrade plane requires is for us is to integrate fifth gen tech especially things like towed decoys, MAWS, GaN based EW pods, AESA and meteor integration along with stealth coating and RCS improvement. The Flanker are far more capable airframes than the f-15's so will be extremely deadly but we need to massively overhaul the mki's. Also the al-41f1 upgrade should be a must. Russian engine efficiency has improved quite a bit.
That's in part due to the strategic partnership we have with France. In that sense I believe irrespective of whichever party's in power , the relationship we share with France is certainly on a much better footing as compared to say your northern neighbour the UK with whom we share a problematic love hate relationship.
Also credit must be given to both Dassault & Qatar for accommodating us . No 2 opinions here .
5 Rafale M on lease in all probability. I doubt the IN will go in for a 2nd hand purchase. Which in turn would mean we import it from France or combine orders with the IAF to manufacture them in India provided the price is right.
I would imagine the Make in India by Dassault would only work if there's a cost benefit or at least zero cost additions. Otherwise in all likelihood this government would prefer going in for off sets.
AMCA Mk-1 is due for it's first flight in 2025-26 with FOC in 2031 . Now depending on how well it performs , what it brings to the table & how soon will it happen , decisions on external procurements would be taken .
There's certainly a case to be made for a 5th Gen FA to be procured later this decade which as of now seems to be the Su-57 . If either UK or preferably France had a 5th Gen FA in it's inventory the IAF would definitely have opted for it .
Beyond that with the kind of indigenous programs in the pipeline , the fast changing global scenario especially in our neighborhood makes it difficult to see the procurement of a 4.5 + Gen FA later this decade.
That's precisely why I think & have maintained even earlier that the MRFA tender is a bit of a Plan B for the LCA Mk-2 / AMCA Mk-1 . Given the excruciatingly slow procurement process by our bureaucracy & financial constraints , if & that's a big if , the IAF floats an RFI this year , for the entire process to culminate in an agreement being signed would take at least 6 yrs & I'm being very optimistic here.
Usually it takes twice the time if we go by the T/L of the previous tender . This means 2028. Add another 3-4 yrs for the first Rafale to roll out of DRAL Mihan & that's 2031-32.
This co incides with the T/L of the FOC of the AMCA Mk-1 . Even if were to take a delay of a few years that'd mean we roll out our first AMCA Mk-1 production variant by 2034-35 or 35-36 T/L. Looking at the above scenario , pls explain how exactly does one accomodate the MRFA tender & why ?
Look at my post, I wasn't in a MRFA scenario.
And the 2026 Rafale will be at 5 gen level even without passive stealth. This will become increasingly evident to the IAF as they use the Rafale.
For MII , I expect Dassault would be persuaded only if the quantity exceeds 36 nos . That depends on how the IN decides & more importantly when the GoI decides to place orders for the 2nd tranche of Rafales & the quantity it decides to order for the IAF. 54 seems to be ideal but we've no idea if they would even order 36.
Right now there seems to be a fair bit of tension in the air between the IAF & MoD which came out in public during the tenure of the late CDS Gen Bipin Rawat . The former haven't been including the LCA Mk-2 in their list of projected requirements this decade to the press & this is after downgrading the numbers from 200+ initially to around 160 & later on to 140 before dropping mention of it altogether in press briefings.
They suddenly remembered the MRFA tender towards the end of the last year & started drafting AFSQRs for it , 5-6 yrs after the MMRCA tender was cancelled.
Right now there seems to be a fair bit of tension in the air between the IAF & MoD which came out in public during the tenure of the late CDS Gen Bipin Rawat . The former haven't been including the LCA Mk-2 in their list of projected requirements this decade to the press & this is after downgrading the numbers from 200+ initially to around 160 & later on to 140 before dropping mention of it altogether in press briefings.
They suddenly remembered the MRFA tender towards the end of the last year & started drafting AFSQRs for it , 5-6 yrs after the MMRCA tender was cancelled.
Look at my post, I wasn't in a MRFA scenario.
And the 2026 Rafale will be at 5 gen level even without passive stealth. This will become increasingly evident to the IAF as they use the Rafale.
I don't think the IN will operate the jet in two different configurations, so it's unlikely for the lease to progress to a sale. The winning jet is expected to be leased this year, so it's gonna be based on currently operational and deliverable configurations. The better option is to go for follow-ons after the first 26.
AMCA is not competing with the Rafale at all, its success or failure is independent of it. If AMCA fails, we will simply have to import a different next gen aircraft by then, not just more Rafales. So FCAS/Tempest/F-35 etc.
Anyway, the 2032 date was from 2017, when PDP was complete, it's no longer relevant. It was simply done by adding 6+9 years for IOC. By now, only some of the 6 years stage has been completed, the remaining 9 years stage is yet to even begin. It's easier to just believe a post-2035 date than anything before that.
Look at my post, I wasn't in a MRFA scenario.
In a few months the two EOIs and later the RFP will be released. 1 EOI will filter out Strategic Partners, and the other will filter out OEMs, paper evaluations. Then comes the RFP stage, with a combined SP+OEM bid and flight trials.
MRFA is happening.
Well at least the upgraded Rafale vs a J-10C is a believable comparison to look at. It is when it's the 5gen, it's gets humorousThe 32 Rafale to be upgraded in Ambala air base.
Customized For 'High-Altitude' Warfare Against China & Pakistan, Indian Air Force Receives More Rafale Fighters
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has received another batch of Rafale fighter jets after a gap of about nine months. The delivery comes at a time when Pakistan is said to be procuring J-10C fighter jets from China to counterbalance India’s Rafales. The latest delivery includes three of the remaining...
There would be a sound reason why India's order went first. Probably because of the finalisation date on the contract. Or the timeline of Qatar. France wouldn't show themselves to be unreliable exporter. It is bad for business.
I think the two have big RCS. All of them are derivatives of birds studied when stealth wasn't seen as an asset.
Su 35 still reaches 1 sqm RCS the mki has 3-7 sqm RCS while the f-15 have 25 sqm RCS. In a modern war the f-15's will be seen quite easily...
I'm deliberately posting this video here for I believe this has the potential to blow up & damage French Qatari ties thereby jeopardizing the chances of further Rafales to be ordered.
So far, there have been no fatalities from the paint problem.
Airbus reiterated that the cause of the problem on the fuselage surface had been found and that the company was working with customers and the European aviation regulator. At least five other airlines have seen accelerated paint wear on some of the aircraft delivered by Airbus since 2016 and no other company has stopped flying its planes. Airbus has accused the airline of fudging the problem by describing it as a safety issue.
That said I don't believe the Rafale has paint issues.
They should replace their Airbus with 737MAX, clearly. Much safer.
Or maybe they could go for the Comac 919? I'm sure it would make Uncle Sam very happy.
They should replace their Airbus with 737MAX, clearly. Much safer.
Or maybe they could go for the Comac 919? I'm sure it would make Uncle Sam very happy.
Or maybe they could go for the Comac 919? I'm sure it would make Uncle Sam very happy.
They should replace their Airbus with 737MAX, clearly. Much safer.
Or maybe they could go for the Comac 919? I'm sure it would make Uncle Sam very happy.