Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[A Person]

Definitely. Not just Indonesia, even Malaysia and Vietnam are potential operators of the Rafale.

Malaysia seems doubtful. They had a MRCA tender in 2017. But then things stalled due to lack of funding, and in 2019 they dropped it to go with an LCA tender instead. Which appears to have stalled as well, since in 2021 there were rumors about purchasing second-hand jets from Arab countries... which has also failed to happen. Therefore, I put Malaysia in the "no budget at all" category.

Vietnam is an intriguing idea.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Intriguing coz you may have come across that name in the context of Rafale procurement only here & not anywhere outside for in all likelihood it doesn't exist outside.

 

[randomradio]

Malaysia seems doubtful. They had a MRCA tender in 2017. But then things stalled due to lack of funding, and in 2019 they dropped it to go with an LCA tender instead. Which appears to have stalled as well, since in 2021 there were rumors about purchasing second-hand jets from Arab countries... which has also failed to happen. Therefore, I put Malaysia in the "no budget at all" category.

Vietnam is an intriguing idea.

Malaysia's gonna make their Rafale class decision after 2030.

This decade's for the light fighter jet.

Malaysia issues tender for RMAF's LCA/FLIT programme

Malaysia's Ministry of Defence (MinDef) announced on 22 June that it has launched a tender for the Royal Malaysian Air Force's (RMAF's) Light Combat Aircraft/Fighter...

www.janes.com

Hurjet and Tejas square up in Malaysia | Times Aerospace

A Malaysian tender for a Light Fighter Jet and Advanced Trainer Aircraft opened between June and October 2021.

www.timesaerospace.aero

As for Vietnam, they have fallen prey to CAATSA. So they are gonna make their future fighter decision based around a Western option, it became an option after the US lifted the arms embargo on Vietnam. They bought the SPYDER-MR right after that. Right now they are spending money on Yak-130s. India's gonna compete for a future deal with the Tejas though, they have a lot of Mig-21s to replace.

Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China

Vietnam is in talks with European and U.S. contractors to buy fighter jets, maritime patrol planes and unarmed drones, sources said, as it looks to beef up its aerial defenses in the face of China's growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

www.reuters.com

 

[A Person]

Intriguing coz you may have come across that name in the context of Rafale procurement only here & not anywhere outside for in all likelihood it doesn't exist outside.

What' chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

If you're talking about Malaysia's MRCA, it's in Wikipedia.

Royal Malaysian Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"As a part of the Malaysia's Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) program..."

As for Vietnam, they have fallen prey to CAATSA. So they are gonna make their future fighter decision based around a Western option, it became an option after the US lifted the arms embargo on Vietnam.

From your article:

The previously unreported aircraft discussions have involved Swedish defense contractor Saab, European consortium Eurofighter, the defense wing of Airbus Group and U.S. firms Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing, said industry sources with direct knowledge of the talks.

 

[_Anonymous_]

What' chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

If you're talking about Malaysia's MRCA, it's in Wikipedia.

Royal Malaysian Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"As a part of the Malaysia's Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) program..."

Vietnam. Our storyteller forgot Dien Bien Phu. I doubt you or the Kinh ever did .

 

[Hydra]

There were a lot of things the Growler, actually the Prowler, was good at that others didn't have. But the Growler is now contemporary technology. Due to advancements in wireless technologies, a lot of things that could only be solved with expensive repetitive experimentation were solved with just more advanced hardware that you can literally buy off the internet today. Which is why SPECTRA stood out when it was released, it used those advanced hardware and techniques that made the Growler and Prowler obsolete 15+ years ago.

In America's case too, the F-35 makes the Growler obsolete. But the USN has to continue to develop and use the Growler because they are gonna continue using the Super Hornet as their primary jet for at least 2 more decades. In everyone else's case too, if they are still using 4th gen jets, they will benefit from using Growler type capabilities.

Countries that are fully transitioning to the F-35, Rafale and Gripen E can abandon the need for dedicated EW aircraft.

So for, only EA-18G made a successful kill against F22 at BVR.

 

[Bon Plan]

You were offered the growler light. It didn't have all the systems.

AERO INDIA: Boeing reveals plans for 'Growler Lite'

Boeing plans to market an EA-18G "Growler Lite" tailored for an "electronic awareness" role rather than attack. The manufacturer believes that offering...

www.flightglobal.com

Full spec Growler only available for the big five and maybe some very close NATO ally.
Don't imagine USA giving you such a weapon without a hard choke collar... never.

So for, only EA-18G made a successful kill against F22 at BVR.

LOL. Where is the F22 wreck ?

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

So for, only EA-18G made a successful kill against F22 at BVR.

The USA refuses to do BVR exercises with the Rafale....strange no?

 

[Optimist]

LOL and there is a story to the F-22 kill, it should still be available.

 

[randomradio]

From your article:

The first movers were the Swedish, but the Vietnamese have shown interest in all Western options, not just the ones mentioned.

Right now the discussions are happening behind closed doors, and the Vietnamese want to keep it that way.

Defense Dialogue Spotlights Vietnam-France Military Ties

The interaction was yet another sign of ongoing attempts by both sides to further boost security collaboration.

thediplomat.com

Working group for Vietnam-France defence ties meet via videoconference

The working group for Vietnam-France defence cooperation held a meeting via videoconference on May 5 during which the two countries’ officials agreed to maintain high-level contact and strengthen links in different aspects.

en.nhandan.vn

Otoh, India is talking about it openly.

India offers $500 million defense credit as Vietnam seeks arms boost

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi offered Vietnam a credit line on Saturday of half a billion dollars for defense cooperation, giving a lift to a country rapidly pursing a military deterrent as discord festers in the South China Sea.

www.reuters.com

HAL planning to set up bases in four countries to push exports

HAL is now focusing on boosting exports in sync with the government's priority and identified South East Asia, West Asia and North Africa to sell key platforms like Tejas, attack helicopter Rudra and advanced light helicopter Dhruv. Last month, PM Modi has set an ambitious defence export target...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

State-run aerospace behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is looking at setting up logistics bases in Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Sri Lanka as part of initiatives to woo the countries to buy India's light combat aircraft Tejas and military helicopters.

It's unclear how far ahead they are looking at these things though. The US could be number one on their agenda amongst Western countries, but they are already working with Israel and India today.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/israel-india-to-build-10-year-defense-cooperation-plan-683591

According to the report, the top three customers of Israeli arms were India (45% of the total amount), Azerbaijan (17%), and Vietnam (8.5%).

India, Vietnam expand partnership, build defense IT system - Indo-Pacific Defense Forum

Mandeep Singh India and Vietnam reaffirmed their strong defense ties in August 2021 when India pledg

ipdefenseforum.com

 

[randomradio]

So for, only EA-18G made a successful kill against F22 at BVR.

That places a question mark on the F-22, not enhances the Growler's reputation.

 

[suryakiran]

That places a question mark on the F-22, not enhances the Growler's reputation.

In all probability the raptor was gaming with a handicap. Or was with a luneberg lens.

 

[randomradio]

In all probability the raptor was gaming with a handicap. Or was with a luneberg lens.

Yep, if the Growler could take advantage of it, most other 4th gen jets would have been able to do the same.

 

[Lolwa]

Not EA-18G, they will not sell it as a stand alone platform.

For that we will have to buy the Super-hornets and give the MMRCA deal to the super-hornet. EA-18G is not some high tech confidential tech. If they could modify the P-8I's for us EA-18G is a very realistic possibility. The Americans won't sell us three things aim120D, f-35 and Aegis/THAAD.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

For that we will have to buy the Super-hornets and give the MMRCA deal to the super-hornet. EA-18G is not some high tech confidential tech. If they could modify the P-8I's for us EA-18G is a very realistic possibility. The Americans won't sell us three things aim120D, f-35 and Aegis/THAAD.

We dont need Aim 120 D -- We have METEOR ,RVV BD and will make SFDR

We dont need F 35 , we can buy Su 75 and make AMCA
Also we will get Rafales F 4 in a few years

Aegis equivalent on our ships is
The Multi-Function Surveillance Threat Alert Radar (MF-STAR)

It is the Israeli equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s Aegis Combat System

Garpun Bal-E Makes Way For Scanter-6002 On Project 15B INS Visakhapatnam DDG

At first glance, the most obvious improvement on the Indian Navy’s first Project 15B guided-missile destroyer (DDG) INS Visakhapatnam is the...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

Why do we need THAAD when we have S 400 and also our own BMD system

 

[_Anonymous_]

Lol @Vietnam & France discussing collaboration / purchases behind closed doors & the only thing they've agreed upon after diplomatic recognition in 1973 , establishment of a strategic dialogue since 2016 is to form a working group to sort out legacy issues regarding the contested legacy in the Indo China region regarding their military histories apart from anodyne exchanges on the strategic situation , UN peacekeeping missions , medicine , etc .

I've yet to see any French paper hinting at Vietnam considering the Rafales or Dassault indicate the same or even consider Vietnam as one of their prospective buyers . Not only that , France has yet to sell Vietnam any platform or weapon of strategic significance , nor do we see any indications of it & here we already have the entire broth brewed & ready to serve.

 

[Hydra]

For that we will have to buy the Super-hornets and give the MMRCA deal to the super-hornet. EA-18G is not some high tech confidential tech. If they could modify the P-8I's for us EA-18G is a very realistic possibility. The Americans won't sell us three things aim120D, f-35 and Aegis/THAAD.

Ys, we need to buy an american fighter first, EA18 will follow only after that. A hefty price.

 

[Hydra]

We dont need Aim 120 D -- We have METEOR ,RVV BD and will make SFDR

We dont need F 35 , we can buy Su 75 and make AMCA
Also we will get Rafales F 4 in a few years

Aegis equivalent on our ships is
The Multi-Function Surveillance Threat Alert Radar (MF-STAR)

It is the Israeli equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s Aegis Combat System

Garpun Bal-E Makes Way For Scanter-6002 On Project 15B INS Visakhapatnam DDG

At first glance, the most obvious improvement on the Indian Navy’s first Project 15B guided-missile destroyer (DDG) INS Visakhapatnam is the...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

Why do we need THAAD when we have S 400 and also our own BMD system

Ys, we need 120D, if we are going for a US fighter through MRFA or in 26 naval fighter. It doesnt make any sense for not buying 120D & AIM #260 in future if MRFA tender wins by US supplier, no matter how many "n" type air 2 air missiles we had.
The so called Meteor cannot be integrated with aUS fighter due to political reasons. Regarding Russian stuffs, we need a really working piece which performs in actual combat & it will not be integrated with any US or European platforms we gonna operate. SFDR, lets test flight Astra MK2 first before day dreaming.

Ys, operational wise we have requirements for F35. SU57 still a paper plane. More Rafales, GOI is still in fools Paradise for not ordering follow on orders. ( countries Indonesia is ordering More than what we have ordered ).

No, MF-STAR is just a radar, Aegus is much more than that.

We may not need a THAAD, but definitely a comparable system is required.

The Americans won't sell us three things aim120D, f-35 and Aegis/THAAD.

They have to if they wanna win mrfa & deck based fighter contract.
Ys, with s400 its highly unlikely that we are getting f35.
THAAD been offered to us in past.

 

[Lolwa]

Lol @Vietnam & France discussing collaboration / purchases behind closed doors & the only thing they've agreed upon after diplomatic recognition in 1973 , establishment of a strategic dialogue since 2016 is to form a working group to sort out legacy issues regarding the contested legacy in the Indo China region regarding their military histories apart from anodyne exchanges on the strategic situation , UN peacekeeping missions , medicine , etc .

I've yet to see any French paper hinting at Vietnam considering the Rafales or Dassault indicate the same or even consider Vietnam as one of their prospective buyers . Not only that , France has yet to sell Vietnam any platform or weapon of strategic significance , nor do we see any indications of it & here we already have the entire broth brewed & ready to serve.

Vietnam is the strongest candidate
for the tejas.

 

[Lolwa]

We dont need Aim 120 D -- We have METEOR ,RVV BD and will make SFDR

We dont need F 35 , we can buy Su 75 and make AMCA
Also we will get Rafales F 4 in a few years

Aegis equivalent on our ships is
The Multi-Function Surveillance Threat Alert Radar (MF-STAR)

It is the Israeli equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s Aegis Combat System

Garpun Bal-E Makes Way For Scanter-6002 On Project 15B INS Visakhapatnam DDG

At first glance, the most obvious improvement on the Indian Navy’s first Project 15B guided-missile destroyer (DDG) INS Visakhapatnam is the...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

Why do we need THAAD when we have S 400 and also our own BMD system

Aim 120d cost 1 Million $ per unit
Meteor costs 2 million $ per unit
We need a cheaper missile. Meteor is a silver bullet.
Su-75 is vapourware the thing will come online around the same time as the amca and will be inferior to it looking at the state of the su-57 which will also be inferior to the amca. At best we can buy 3 squadrons of su-57 (1 squadron for pak 2 squadrons for China) for now

Aegis is for commonality with quad members. Japan, U.S and Australia all use the aegis. What we need though is the equivalent of the aegis ashore rather than the ship based aegis.
And Aegis Combat system has a bunch of countermeasures unlike the barak 8. Not even the Russians have anything equivalent of aegis system that can be used on ships.

This is the range of the sm3 BMD interceptor it's in a different class to every other navy. This is used on the average American destroyer. And not only can it ve used as BMD interceptor it can also be used as an anti-ship ballistic missile.

Ys, we need 120D, if we are going for a US fighter through MRFA or in 26 naval fighter. It doesnt make any sense for not buying 120D & AIM #260 in future if MRFA tender wins by US supplier, no matter how many "n" type air 2 air missiles we had.
The so called Meteor cannot be integrated with aUS fighter due to political reasons. Regarding Russian stuffs, we need a really working piece which performs in actual combat & it will not be integrated with any US or European platforms we gonna operate. SFDR, lets test flight Astra MK2 first before day dreaming.

Ys, operational wise we have requirements for F35. SU57 still a paper plane. More Rafales, GOI is still in fools Paradise for not ordering follow on orders. ( countries Indonesia is ordering More than what we have ordered ).

No, MF-STAR is just a radar, Aegus is much more than that.

We may not need a THAAD, but definitely a comparable system is required.

They have to if they wanna win mrfa & deck based fighter contract.
Ys, with s400 its highly unlikely that we are getting f35.
THAAD been offered to us in past.

THAAD is anyway an inferior system. It's the aegis and Aegis ashore that we need for our navy and BMD requirement. Although I would prefer if we developed an equivalent of aegis cs instead of buying them from americans. It's crown jewel tech.