Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[_Anonymous_]

In fact, India's electronic warfare capabilities are relatively weak. In the 2019 India-Pakistan air battle, India's communication was seriously interfered by Pakistan, which also caused the MIG21 to not even know that it had crossed the actual control line, and the DA20 large electronic fighter played a great role. It is equipped with China's JN1101-F communication countermeasure system
India's electronic warfare capabilities mainly rely on pods purchased from France and Israel,

This is akin to the IAF laughing at the stealth capabilities of J-20 which the IAF claims was easily detected by the MKI when it was flying over Xinjiang / Tibet aerospace. Global Times carried a long article saying that the J-20s deliberately let itself be detected so as to determine the radar signatures of MKIs. Believe what you want to .

China's J-20 stealth jet has taken to the skies — but India says its fighters can spot it easily

Bronk explained that unlike the US's F-22 and F-35 stealth jets, the J-20 doesn't have all aspect stealth. This means that from some angles, the J-20 isn't stealthy. A senior stealth scientist previously told Business Insider the J-20 is stealthiest from the front end.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Optimist]

Do not be confused by Taiwan not showing China its capability. I assume there is good intel on what Taiwan is doing. If there is an invasion, they will use their assets. Nor should anyone be confused by Chinese assets.

 

[xxxxx]

This is akin to the IAF laughing at the stealth capabilities of J-20 which the IAF claims was easily detected by the MKI when it was flying over Xinjiang / Tibet aerospace. Global Times carried a long article saying that the J-20s deliberately let itself be detected so as to determine the radar signatures of MKIs. Believe what you want to .

China's J-20 stealth jet has taken to the skies — but India says its fighters can spot it easily

Bronk explained that unlike the US's F-22 and F-35 stealth jets, the J-20 doesn't have all aspect stealth. This means that from some angles, the J-20 isn't stealthy. A senior stealth scientist previously told Business Insider the J-20 is stealthiest from the front end.

www.businessinsider.com

At that time, Chinese military fans searched for a long time to find the origin of this report. We finally found a more reliable interview. An Indian reporter interviewed the former Indian Air Force Chief of Staff. He said that India can find the J20 several kilometers away.
After that, it was spread by various low-quality media and became the J20 of India's discovery of Tibet.

 

[_Anonymous_]

First of all, if you say that the mobile phones that China sells in India are very cheap, so China's electronic warfare capability is very poor, this is quite wrong, first of all, India's consumption level itself is very low, and cheap electronic products are of course very marketable.

I think you really need to update yourself on the mobile telephone market in India. Besides since when is consumer electronics restricted only to mobile telephones ? However the less said about the State of other Chinese products in the CE field the better though it's not for dearth of trying nor is it on account of a sub standard portfolio of products viz Haier has been on India for more than 2 decades. It's not even in the top 5 as far as sales go .

China dominates only the entry level segments here which is mostly low end mobile telephones & to some extent the middle range although practically all the Chinese mobile manufacturers are present here with most of them synchronising global launches of their products with the same in India.

Secondly, the level of civilian products is not related to the level of military electronic warfare.

I never said it was , did I ? I was speculating on how that member you quoted deduced .

For example, Taiwan has the most advanced chip manufacturing process in the world, 4nm. In mainland China, it is 14nm.But when we flew around Taiwan, we found that the level of electronic warfare in Taiwan was very low, a lot of equipment was stuck in 1970, and we even needed to change the program to interfere with such old equipment,

Congratulations on alerting your enemy on how obsolete the systems they run were . North Korea did the same to South Korea & look at the advances South Korea has made in the past decade plus the futuristic programs they've in the pipeline. Ditto for Japan thanks to China.

Frankly , you know I used to think the Chinese were master strategists . I wasn't wrong . It takes some level of ingenious thinking to needle all your neighbours one by one & alert them into the possibility that you can & will attack them .

You can see what Taiwan comes up with in the next few years thanks to you .

And India's radars and equipment can't catch up with Taiwan. Most of them are Soviet radars of the last century, and there are also a small number of Israeli turquoise radars.

Unfortunately the PLA doesn't think so & hasn't thought so since June 2020 in Galwan. What do you know that they don't ? Perhaps you ought to have a word with them .

 

[xxxxx]

Do not be confused by Taiwan not showing China its capability. I assume there is good intel on what Taiwan is doing. If there is an invasion, they will use their assets. Nor should anyone be confused by Chinese assets.

Chinese radio amateurs once released an audio, which is a recording of Taiwan ground radar station commanding F16 in the public frequency band, which probably means: ground radar can't see it at all, please track it yourself
You said that Taiwan has reservations, so how can you be sure that China has used all its capabilities?

 

[_Anonymous_]

At that time, Chinese military fans searched for a long time to find the origin of this report. We finally found a more reliable interview. An Indian reporter interviewed the former Indian Air Force Chief of Staff. He said that India can find the J20 several kilometers away.
After that, it was spread by various low-quality media and became the J20 of India's discovery of Tibet.

Believe what you want to .

 

[Optimist]

Chinese radio amateurs once released an audio, which is a recording of Taiwan ground radar station commanding F16 in the public frequency band, which probably means: ground radar can't see it at all, please track it yourself
You said that Taiwan has reservations, so how can you be sure that China has used all its capabilities?

I thought that was clear, when I said "Nor should anyone be confused by Chinese assets."

 

[xxxxx]

Unfortunately the PLA doesn't think so & hasn't thought so since June 2020 in Galwan. What do you know that they don't ? Perhaps you ought to have a word with them .

Nothing to do with the topic here
But do you still think so after China released photos of Galwan Valley?

 

[_Anonymous_]

Nothing to do with the topic here
But do you still think so after China released photos of Galwan Valley?

Has the CCP acknowledged the number of your countrymen killed during the great purge following it's victory in the civil war ? Have they acknowledged the number of your countrymen killed during the 5 pests campaign & the great leap forward ? Further have they ever acknowledged who was behind it & why ?

How many of your own countrymen trust the CCP in other matters leave aside what happened in Galwan ? Answer all that not in the form of a post to us but to yourself & you'd have your answer.

 

[xxxxx]

Has the CCP acknowledged the number of your countrymen killed during the great purge following it's victory in the civil war ? Have they acknowledged the number of your countrymen killed during the 5 pests campaign & the great leap forward ? Further have they ever acknowledged who was behind it & why ?

How many of your own countrymen trust the CCP in other matters leave aside what happened in Galwan ? Answer all that not in the form of a post to us but to yourself & you'd have your answer.

Don't change the subject, from lectronic warfare to Galwan Valley to the famine of the 1965s
If you are interested in Chinese politics, Find some books to read instead of repeating what the media has instilled in you,
About the Rafale. My conclusion is simple, the Rafale is a good aircraft, but limited capability enhancement to the Indian Air Force

 

[_Anonymous_]

Don't change the subject, from lectronic warfare to Galwan Valley to the famine of the 1965s
If you are interested in Chinese politics, Find some books to read instead of repeating what the media has instilled in you,

Perhaps you could recommend the books the CCP has you study.

About the Rafale. My conclusion is simple, the Rafale is a good aircraft, but limited capability enhancement to the Indian Air Force

Believe what you want to .

 

[xxxxx]

Perhaps you could recommend the books the CCP has you study.

1 Das Kapital
2 The state and the revolution
3 The land issue and the struggle for freedom
4 The first draft of the programme on national and colonial issues
5 On Ten Relationships
6 On Protracted War

 

[_Anonymous_]

1 Das Kapital
2 The state and the revolution
3 The land issue and the struggle for freedom
4 The first draft of the programme on national and colonial issues
5 On Ten Relationships
6 On Protracted War

Except the first one , the rest aren't easily available here or I suspect anywhere else except China . You could probably add Cuba , Venezuela & North Korea alongside China.

Besides , barring the last two ones , the rest are by Lenin pertaining to Communism but mostly in the Russian context ( except Kapital ) where Communism collapsed more than 30 yrs ago . How are they relevant to a better understanding of the politics of modern day China & this includes the 2 essays by Mao which is again dated to first half of last century .

Or are you indirectly saying that politics in China has ossified to such an extent that there's no difference between the politics practised in the 1950s to what it is today. Ironically that's what the west maintains too about Xi Jinping , the personality cult he's cultivating , his politics & especially the powers he's concentrated in himself not seen since Mao.

That's a rather smart & subtle way of putting things across. I can see how conversation & ideas expressed in a police state is remarkably nuanced unlike in more open societies where conversations are more direct & at times in your face which in turn reminds me of a phrase from India where it's said - I've given up fibbing . I don't have to remember what I said the last time anymore.

Sometimes & somehow I miss nuanced conversations.

 

[Hydra]

Even as per the Americans, the Growler is not necessary to support the F-35. The same story with the Rafale. While Growler performs jamming, the Rafale performs deception. So the Growler would actually get in the way of the Rafale's mission.

Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts - Breaking Defense

For years, the news about the most expensive conventional weapons system in US history, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, has been driven by its soaring costs, technical problems and schedule screw-ups. The government and Congress and the public rarely speak about what the F-35 will do, how...

breakingdefense.com

Growlers are not front-line aircraft for the first week of war, Hostage argues. They will be useful against a high-end opponent for the same reason that other fourth-generation aircraft such as F-15s and F-16s will be: for “volume” in the face of superior enemy numbers.

“But in the first moments of a conflict I’m not sending Growlers or F-16s or F-15Es anywhere close to that environment, so now I’m going to have to put my fifth gen in there and that’s where that radar cross-section and the exchange of the kill chain is so critical. You’re not going to get a Growler close up to help in the first hours and days of the conflict, so I’m going to be relying on that stealth to open the door,” Hostage says.

Rafale works a bit differently than the F-35 due to the lack of passive stealth. But the end goal is the same. It uses Spectra to reduce its RCS to move in closer and act as a sensor, while the shooter flies below horizon to make the kill. Otoh Growlers are not discrete and prevent the use of such tactics.

Compass Call is something else entirely, it doesn't conflict with the Rafale or F-35 or stealth in general.

If a dedicated EW attack system is worthless, why Saab is developing such system?

 

[randomradio]

I wish that was true about China. It would make things so much easier.
Russia and France are so good, that India is using Israeli EW/EA tech.

Israel has been helping us develop our own EW capabilities since the 90s. So we obviously cooperate with them.

 

[randomradio]

End it, my friend, I can't convince you,

So you're basically saying Rafale carries hardware that it cannot use?

Yes, for example, the level of T/R parts and the level of A/D chips, but they are too professional, so I won’t discuss them.

You can't compare those things outside a tender. At the very least China should bring the JF-17 to an air show and compete with the LCA.

 

[zapper]

 

[Sathya]

Last batch of Rafale jets to arrive in India next week

India specific enhancements are being incorporated on all jets

www.thehindu.com

 

[randomradio]

About the Rafale. My conclusion is simple, the Rafale is a good aircraft, but limited capability enhancement to the Indian Air Force

If this is what PLAAF truly believes, then there's no better news than that for the IAF.

If a dedicated EW attack system is worthless, why Saab is developing such system?

Gripen E?

 

[randomradio]

View attachment 22722

Funny as that meme is, the first and second guy are at the end of their careers, the third guy is beginning his career.

36 is naturally just the beginning for India. The end goal requires 200 more.