Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Do GOI is care about it? Answer is no. They dont mind if IAF is flying jets or not. The way they screwed IN modernisation is simply saying the same, the way they screwed IA athos howitzer purchase says the same.

There are alternatives for when the GoI "screws over" the forces. What's the alternative for the IAF?

And no, Tejas and MKI are not alternatives to the Rafale. And AMCA is a 2040 aircraft, so there has to be something between 2020 (MKI) and 2040 (AMCA), which is MRFA. Now, if you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to present an alternative, ie plan B.
 
There are alternatives for when the GoI "screws over" the forces. What's the alternative for the IAF?

And no, Tejas and MKI are not alternatives to the Rafale. And AMCA is a 2040 aircraft, so there has to be something between 2020 (MKI) and 2040 (AMCA), which is MRFA. Now, if you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to present an alternative, ie plan B.
Tejas is mere an up gunned Mig21, everyone in this forum eill agree on it. If GOI can make IN to give up an ultra modern b737 based P8 system with c295 based DRDO system which lacks range, fire power & sensor package w.r. t p8I, then they can easily replace rafale with Tejas. ( the hefty price we are paying for selecting un educated personals as MPs/MLAs, may not be all but most of them are.)
And no, Tejas and MKI are not alternatives to the Rafale. And AMCA is a 2040 aircraft, so there has to be something between 2020 (MKI) and 2040 (AMCA), which is MRFA. Now, if you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to present an alternative, ie plan B.
And where is the urgency from GOI on MRFA? None.
I dont need to, GOI will
 
Tejas is mere an up gunned Mig21, everyone in this forum eill agree on it.

Lol. No.

If GOI can make IN to give up an ultra modern b737 based P8 system with c295 based DRDO system which lacks range, fire power & sensor package w.r. t p8I, then they can easily replace rafale with Tejas. ( the hefty price we are paying for selecting un educated personals as MPs/MLAs, may not be all but most of them are.)

Only if they can put a second engine on Tejas.

And where is the urgency from GOI on MRFA? None.
I dont need to, GOI will

It's not GoI's decision. It's the IAF's. If you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to provide an alternative.
 
There are alternatives for when the GoI "screws over" the forces. What's the alternative for the IAF?

And no, Tejas and MKI are not alternatives to the Rafale. And AMCA is a 2040 aircraft, so there has to be something between 2020 (MKI) and 2040 (AMCA), which is MRFA. Now, if you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to present an alternative, ie plan B.

If Rafale 114 is INEVITABLE and Indispensable, then what on Earth
Is preventing the GOI to make an announcement , right now , that
114 MRFA is going to happen soon

Why this stupid suspenseful behavior , which leads to speculations

By the way if 2024 election creates political instability , then what happens
 
Third place is actually Indonesia with 42 Rafale. India gets fourth place tied with Qatar. You'll have to step down from the podium. :p

Funny as that meme is, the first and second guy are at the end of their careers, the third guy is beginning his career.

36 is naturally just the beginning for India. The end goal requires 200 more.
Egypt's end goal is about a hundred Rafale. So we can expect more Egyptian repeat orders once their current order is delivered.

At this point in time, there isn't a more networked major air force in the world than the IAF. The US is using the IP-based TTNT, but the main link on fighters is still Link 16, along with NATO. All other US allies are also on the old Link 16. The upgrade to TTNT is yet to happen.
France is spearheading ESSOR and the NATO combat cloud.


If Rafale 114 is INEVITABLE and Indispensable, then what on Earth
Is preventing the GOI to make an announcement , right now , that
114 MRFA is going to happen soon

Why this stupid suspenseful behavior , which leads to speculations

By the way if 2024 election creates political instability , then what happens
With the Emirati and Indonesian orders, Dassault will need to open up a new production line if more large orders appear. No other way to ramp up production enough to meet demand otherwise. So this is the perfect time for India to order as many Rafale as it can to get that new production line be opened up in DRAL's Nagpur facility instead of in Merignac. 36 IAF + 26 IN should be enough.
 
Insha Allah , latest by next Mar , we'd sign an agreement for 36+24 or 54+26 Rafales & close the verse , chapter & book on it .

Out here we'd keep listening to stories till 2025 & then some more till 2027 . And on & on . Reminds me of this :


You can guess who's who here . Dassault , GoI , IAF & Strat Front.
 
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If Rafale 114 is INEVITABLE and Indispensable, then what on Earth
Is preventing the GOI to make an announcement , right now , that
114 MRFA is going to happen soon

Why this stupid suspenseful behavior , which leads to speculations

By the way if 2024 election creates political instability , then what happens

They already did, when the IAF released the RFI in April 2019. RFIs are released when there's a requirement, not otherwise.

The next step for SPM is the AoN, then EoIs, followed by the RFP.

We are in the AoN stage, which will hopefully be completed before May so EoIs can go out in June or July.

I doubt 2024 will affect the tender. The political side of the deal will likely happen after 2024, so even if Congress wins, they will not have an issue with the IAF's process until then, like flight testing and shortlisting. Tenders usually get into trouble during the negotiations stage.
 
They already did, when the IAF released the RFI in April 2019. RFIs are released when there's a requirement, not otherwise.

The next step for SPM is the AoN, then EoIs, followed by the RFP.

We are in the AoN stage, which will hopefully be completed before May so EoIs can go out in June or July.

I doubt 2024 will affect the tender. The political side of the deal will likely happen after 2024, so even if Congress wins, they will not have an issue with the IAF's process until then, like flight testing and shortlisting. Tenders usually get into trouble during the negotiations stage.

So you mean to say that the Contract Signature will happen after 2024 elections

So what will IAF gain by wasting so much time

If you want Rafale , and Money is not an issue , then go ahead right now

OR are we trying for a PACKAGE DEAL with Engine Technology and Submarine deal -- all thrown in together

So it will be all or nothing
 
Egypt's end goal is about a hundred Rafale. So we can expect more Egyptian repeat orders once their current order is delivered.

It's surprising that they didn't ask for a production line.

France is spearheading ESSOR and the NATO combat cloud.

Yep. About time that everybody else starts stepping into the 21st century. At least amongst major powers, we seem to have done it first.

With the Emirati and Indonesian orders, Dassault will need to open up a new production line if more large orders appear. No other way to ramp up production enough to meet demand otherwise. So this is the perfect time for India to order as many Rafale as it can to get that new production line be opened up in DRAL's Nagpur facility instead of in Merignac. 36 IAF + 26 IN should be enough.

If a new line is required, then the Indian line could be ready to go by the end of the year, perhaps even a few months from now. It's 2022 after all. Dassault's promised a Falcon this year.

I'm expecting a 13 jet option with the 26. So even the IN's order alone is enough to get the line started. I mean, think about it, if the IN and IAF place orders, then they will both expect 12 jets each a year, so the line will have to operate at near max capacity anyway, at best leaving 12 jets for exports. But with just IN's orders at 12 jets a year, it leaves room for other countries. Once the IAF signs the Rafale deal through MRFA, the IN orders would have completed and the IAF's would take over.

IN: 2022 signature, 2025 delivery begin, 2028 delivery end.
IAF: 2026 signature, 2029 delivery begin, 2038 delivery end.
 
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So you mean to say that the Contract Signature will happen after 2024 elections

So what will IAF gain by wasting so much time

If you want Rafale , and Money is not an issue , then go ahead right now

I'm expecting a signature in 2026, with deliveries commencing in 2029. So this gives 4 years for the tender.

OR are we trying for a PACKAGE DEAL with Engine Technology and Submarine deal -- all thrown in together


So it will be all or nothing

Nothing of the sort, it's only a tender.
 
It's not GoI's decision. It's the IAF's. If you think MRFA won't happen, then you will have to provide an alternative.
It will be a GOI call, they can do what ever tjey want.
Why you are conveniently ignoring the p8,athos, mounted gun system sagas? All these purchases were put on hold or simply scrapped by goi.
 
Rafale can supercruise, and we have seen it dog fight with the F-22 quite well. Whereas when it comes to information, the French have been using centralised computer architecture called MDPU since the late 90s with the Mirage 2000-5. So this is about 6-7 years before the F-22. And SPECTRA that was released in 2004 on the Rafale boasts the same RWR and ESM features as the F-35. What separates the F-35 from the Rafale is the F-35 has a better man machine interface, like the HMDS, which is being corrected on the Rafale F4.

The French have been operating with sensor fusion since the late 90s.



Whoa, whoa, Link 16 is crap, India uses an Israeli developed link called ODL, and now we are switching to the BNET.



At this point in time, there isn't a more networked major air force in the world than the IAF. The US is using the IP-based TTNT, but the main link on fighters is still Link 16, along with NATO. All other US allies are also on the old Link 16. The upgrade to TTNT is yet to happen. Apart from Israel, only small air forces have made the transition to an IP-based network, using Israeli tech. Russia is not yet on an IP-based network, while I doubt China has made the same change. So quite literally India is the only major country today using an IP-based network.



As for the tri-services common link, the army is yet to transition to an IP-based network, the air force and navy already have.

Once it's completed this year, India will have a fully IP-based networked force. Only the army's last mile connectivity will be pending, giving soldiers and armoured vehicles individual comm systems. Israel's BNET-AR will provide the IAF with last mile connectivity. The IN is using an Indian solution.
If you hadn't mentioned the M2000, I wouldn't have thought of it. This is a wonderful example. It was not until the M2000-5 that France successfully developed a flat slot radar, which reached the level of the F16A/B radar.
Before that, the M2000 used an inverted Caserentgen radar, and the level was close to that of the F4E.
From this you can see the level of avionics in France
The so-called F22-level sensor fusion is actually a central computer based on the 1553B data bus, which is the standard configuration of fourth-generation fighter jets.
After that, the Rafale fighter once participated in the Greek bidding, and the Greeks directly said that the ECM of the Rafale fighter was completely suppressed by the F16 (of course, I forgot the specific webpage, it should be the bidding in 2003, you can find it yourself)
 
Whoa, whoa, Link 16 is crap, India uses an Israeli developed link called ODL, and now we are switching to the BNET.
Can say that LINK16 is garbage, I admire your courage,
Until now, Russia and Russia have not developed an army-wide data link. China began to popularize the JIDS army-wide integrated data link in 2012.
 
If you hadn't mentioned the M2000, I wouldn't have thought of it. This is a wonderful example. It was not until the M2000-5 that France successfully developed a flat slot radar, which reached the level of the F16A/B radar.
Before that, the M2000 used an inverted Caserentgen radar, and the level was close to that of the F4E.
From this you can see the level of avionics in France

That's not how you compare hardware though.

And you forget that they were flight testing a PESA radar at the same time, along with AESA for SPECTRA. The French transitioned to a one-type air force. Once Rafale production stabilised, they ended M2000 production, so they didn't have to spend money on their older jet.

The so-called F22-level sensor fusion is actually a central computer based on the 1553B data bus, which is the standard configuration of fourth-generation fighter jets.

Nope. In the 90s and 2000s, only 3 aircraft had a centralised architecture, M2000, Rafale and F-22. All others had federated architecture, this includes the Typhoon, Gripen and Su-30MKI.

After that, the Rafale fighter once participated in the Greek bidding, and the Greeks directly said that the ECM of the Rafale fighter was completely suppressed by the F16 (of course, I forgot the specific webpage, it should be the bidding in 2003, you can find it yourself)

Rafale got SPECTRA only in 2004, and I doubt they would have showed it off to foreign countries at the time. It became fully operational only in 2006 with the F3 model. So I doubt the Rafale in Greece had ECM.

Can say that LINK16 is garbage, I admire your courage,

The Link 16 is very limited, so they have developed TTNT to compensate. Their new MIDS JTRS radio provides combined Link 16 and TTNT functionalities.


Until now, Russia and Russia have not developed an army-wide data link. China began to popularize the JIDS army-wide integrated data link in 2012.

Can you provide more information about China's link?
 
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I don’t think the Rafale should be overly deified. The Rafale is just an ordinary 4.5-generation fighter, which is no different from the J10C and J16. The Rafale’s more comprehensive performance and less political cost are the main reasons for its popularity.
Besides, the electronic warfare capability, Rafale and Gripen have only self-defense electronic warfare capability. F35 relies on the operational cloud and mosaic warfare theory developed by its advanced network-centric warfare capability to achieve adaptive electromagnetic interference to the theater (F35 is a very terrible fighter)
It is extremely wrong that fighter jets will replace large electronic fighters in the future. The electronic warfare capabilities of fighter jets are improving. Isn't the ability of large electronic fighters improving?
Take the United States as an example
Next, large electronic warfare aircraft (EC-37B Compass Call II), electronic jammer (carrying NGj pod EA18G) and F35 will constitute the future air electronic warfare system of the United States
View attachment 22711

NGj
View attachment 22712
EC-37B
We have found another troll. A brother of @WHOHE ?