Ukraine - Russia Conflict

I think the guy already felt unsafe and now Finland feels the same way.
Maybe, but my point is still that if you feel unsafe you don't antagonize a huge military power like Russia. If he had toned down then Putin will look like a much bigger warmonger than now. Nepal and Bangladesh do not sing praises of China and ridicule us.

Zelenskyy should have just told that Ukraine will be neutral.
 
My opinion, Kashmir isn't worth it. Originally it was supposed to be independent of both India and Pakistan if my knowledge of history serves me correctly.

Yes. Both India and Pak were pressuring Kashmir to join either union. Both signed standstill agreements with Kashmir. Once Pak realised Kashmir truly wanted to be independent, they invaded. The Kashmiri king asked India for help. India said help will be given after legal ascension. The Kashmiri king agreed, joined India, troops were airlifted to Srinagar immediately and the Pakistanis forces were pushed back to the current border. Nehru foolishly and idealistically thought the UNSC will support India, but it didn't. The UNSC turned Kashmir into a disputed region even though India had legal rights to all of it. The rest is history.
 
More like a delusional idiot. He's not a politician.

The guy who's supposed to be Ukraine's leader, this led to his removal:
I think so. This guy and his nutty party people must have thought that it is political suicide to tone down their pro-NATO rhetoric. Their immaturity led them to think that US will do something magical, and now they have led their country into this mess.
 
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The reason for historical differences is simple. Pakistan was smarter than you and aligned with NATO during the Cold War and reaped the benefits of that despite often being in the wrong. You made a bad decision and aligned with the brotherhood of dictatorships (despite being a democracy) which had consequences.

Neither. Our mistake was choosing socialism over capitalism. Had Nehru gone capitalism back in the 50s, we would have been a developed country today.
 
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I think so. This guy and his nutty party people must have thought that it is political suicide to tone down their pro-NATO rhetoric. Their immaturity led them to think that US will do something magical, and now they have led their country into this mess.

They were convinced by the US that they will get NATO support. Even after it's too late, they are still hoping for a miracle that will "save" them, ie, the US declaring war on Russia. How much more foolish can one get?
 
That's fine when you have reached the point of no return and your land is being reduced to dust. But why allow it to happen in the first place?
  • Zelenskyy did not believe the warnings from US that Russia would attack (many of us, myself included, were thinking that its actually deliberate misinformation being given by US, maybe even US thought it that way till a few days before 24 Feb!).
  • When Zelenskyy saw that Putin was sending such clear signals he should have toned down his demands to join NATO and making generally anti-Kremlin statements. He foolishly did not.
  • Just before the invasion was announced when it appeared that deescalation was actually happening, US and Zelenskyy exhibited unnecessary triumphalism. He again reiterated that Ukraine needs to join NATO. He deluded himself into thinking that it was because of NATO that Putin was backing off.
  • These things might have made all the madness of Putin to spill over and the brutal invasion actually is happening now.
  • He's still asking NATO to establish no-fly zones.
IMO Zelenskyy is a stupid egoistic patriot.
At the same time though, you have nicely refuted many people's assertions that the US stirred this up. They were actually trying to dampen things down.
Neither. Our mistake was choosing socialism over capitalism. Had Nehru gone capitalism back in the 50s, we would have been a developed country today.
Well, that was a second mistake combined with the mistake I mentioned. That's not to say that Nixon and Kissinger were smart men either.
 
Yes. Both India and Pak were pressuring Kashmir to join either union. Both signed standstill agreements with Kashmir. Once Pak realised Kashmir truly wanted to be independent, they invaded. The Kashmiri king asked India for help. India said help will be given after legal ascension. The Kashmiri king agreed, joined India, troops were airlifted to Srinagar immediately and the Pakistanis forces were pushed back to the current border. Nehru foolishly and idealistically thought the UNSC will support India, but it didn't. The UNSC turned Kashmir into a disputed region even though India had legal rights to all of it. The rest is history.
I'm aware of the history, perhaps the problem is that the decision was made by a king and not a people. That said, the UK should never have left Kashmir independent, it should have handed it to one or other side.
Untied Kingdom
Kingdom of Spain
Kingdom of Denmark
Kingdom of the Netherlands
Dominion of Canada
Duchy of Luxembourg
Realm of New Zealand
Kingdom of Norway
Kingdom of Sweden

These are all major NATO countries and Monarchies not a Democracy
Kingdoms by name but not by nature. It's not like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually democratic.
 
At the same time though, you have nicely refuted many people's assertions that the US stirred this up. They were actually trying to dampen things down.
I disagree. If US, UK and gang really wanted to dampen things then they could have sent feelers to Putin and publicly and discreetly told Zelenskyy to back off. Zelenskyy was a useful idiot. After Russia attacked and all he was getting were words of praise and some Javelins and Stingers from NATO, he kept singing the same tune. His idiocy is never ending. But i can't stop thing that he is more than an idiot. He needs to have his head examined.
 
More like a delusional idiot. He's not a politician.

The guy who's supposed to be Ukraine's leader, this led to his removal:
'Supposed to be' on who's say so?
I disagree. If US, UK and gang really wanted to dampen things then they could have sent feelers to Putin and publicly and discreetly told Zelenskyy to back off. Zelenskyy was a useful idiot. After Russia attacked and all he was getting were words of praise and some Javelins and stingers from NATO, he kept the same tone. His idiocy is never ending. But i can't stop thing that he is more than an idiot. He needs to have his head examined.
It's amazing how NATO gets blamed for this even though they've had no hand in it. And Putin isn't exactly smart here. It's like I've always said, sometimes if you leave your enemies alone long enough they destroy themselves. There were growing rifts in the transatlantic partnership too, all gone now.
 
Maybe, but my point is still that if you feel unsafe you don't antagonize a huge military power like Russia. If he had toned down then Putin will look like a much bigger warmonger than now. Nepal and Bangladesh do not sing praises of China and ridicule us.

Zelenskyy should have just told that Ukraine will be neutral.
But joining the EU would never have been seen as a neutral move by Russia anyway. So we'd still be where we are now. At the end of the day, Putin just doesn't like them determining their own future without him.
 
It's amazing how NATO gets blamed for this even though they've had no hand in it. And Putin isn't exactly smart here. It's like I've always said, sometimes if you leave your enemies alone long enough they destroy themselves. There were growing rifts in the transatlantic partnership too, all gone now.
Most of us believe that NATO had a hand which they could have used to slap Zelenskyy to his senses; instead they used the hand to pat his a$$.

Putin's madness is something else altogether. Let's see what his madness leads Russia to - @randomradio thinks that Russia will do great in a sense, many think otherwise.
 
I'm aware of the history, perhaps the problem is that the decision was made by a king and not a people. That said, the UK should never have left Kashmir independent, it should have handed it to one or other side.

Kingdoms by name but not by nature. It's not like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually democratic.

How do you see India? Does it qualify to be a democratic country equivalent to first world countries?
 
But joining the EU would never have been seen as a neutral move by Russia anyway. So we'd still be where we are now. At the end of the day, Putin just doesn't like them determining their own future without him.
Oh God! Neutral means Zelenskyy explicitly stating that Ukraine will not be joining EU, NATO for the forseable future.
 
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Well, that was a second mistake combined with the mistake I mentioned. That's not to say that Nixon and Kissinger were smart men either.

Not really. For India, neutrality still remains the best course of action. We should have been neutral in a BMW rather than on a bicycle.

We are not under significant military threat that we couldn't handle on our own, so there was no need for us to join any alliances.
 
I'm aware of the history, perhaps the problem is that the decision was made by a king and not a people. That said, the UK should never have left Kashmir independent, it should have handed it to one or other side.

UK wanted to create new problems, not fix them.

The moral of the Kashmir story is not to leave big problems in limbo.
 
UK wanted to create new problems, not fix them.

The moral of the Kashmir story is not to leave big problems in limbo.
It's not like the UK could have done anything that would have prevented some kind of dispute between you two.
 
Putin's madness is something else altogether. Let's see what his madness leads Russia to - @randomradio thinks that Russia will do great in a sense, many think otherwise.

Not exactly. Just that their govt will remain rich due to the O&G trade. I have no clue what will happen to Russia's overall economy.

But here's an interesting article:
 
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Not really. For India, neutrality still remains the best course of action. We should have been neutral in a BMW rather than on a bicycle.

We are not under significant military threat that we couldn't handle on our own, so there was no need for us to join any alliances.
What about your border issues with China?
 
Not exactly. Just that their govt will remain rich due to the O&G trade. I have no clue what will happen to Russia's overall economy.

But here's an interesting article:
It's bad when you start relying on a senile old blind woman to guide you.

The O&G trade alone isn't enough to support Russia, even though they will lose out there too - a little in the short-term and a lot in the long term. Russia is not Saudi Arabia.
Oh God! Neutral means Zelenskyy explicitly stating that Ukraine will not be joining EU, NATO for the forseable future.
But joining the EU was the main reason for the Ukrainian revolution, for economic reasons, but Russia would have seen this as a stepping stone to NATO anyway. Putin had no genuine fears of being attacked by NATO, he just didn't like that countries in his orbit were choosing to go elsewhere.